Player ejections on the rise for high school soccer, football matches in Oregon

There has been a significant increase in player ejections for boys soccer and football games this year, according to the Oregon School Activities Association. An ejection is when a coach calls out a player for having unsportsmanlike behavior that can range from threats to physical violence. This year, Oregon’s boys soccer teams have accumulated 198 ejections — a nearly 45% increase from last year. Peter Weber is the executive director of the Oregon School Activities Association. Michael Nolan is the athletic director of Ida B. Wells High School. They both join us now to discuss what’s driving these increases and what’s being done to address them.

Note: The following transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.

Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. Ejections in high school boys’ soccer games in Oregon went up 45% in the last year. In football, they’re up 75% in two years. Both are at all-time highs, according to the Oregon School Activities Association, OSAA. At a meeting last month, athletics directors from around the state talked about what’s driving these increases, and considered changing statewide rules in response. Peter Weber is the executive director of the OSAA. Michael Nolan is the athletic director at Ida B. Wells High School in Southwest Portland. They both join me now. It’s great to have both of you on Think Out Loud.

Peter Weber: It’s great to be here.

Michael Nolan: Thanks.

Miller: Peter, first – What kinds of behavior could warrant an ejection?

Weber: Well, it varies a little bit by sport. I think the objections that we’re most concerned about at OSAA are those that would be unsportsmanlike. So things like fighting, foul language, serious foul play, basically anything that would be considered unsportsmanlike conduct would fall into that category.

Miller: And what does the punishment actually entail?

Weber: Currently, based on ejection policies, a coach or a student that is ejected from a contest is ejected for the remainder of the day, and then serves a suspension period through the next contest at that level. So, if they’re playing JV or varsity, it’s through the next contest at that same level.

Miller: “At that same level,” including, say, if the next game is a championship game?

Weber: Correct, correct. We’ve had that happen occasionally.

Miller: Michael Nolan, you’ve been at Ida B. Wells for what, 25 years now?

Nolan: Yes, I have. I’ve been here that long.

Miller: How would you describe the situation that you see? And I’m curious, how do you put it in the perspective of your quarter century in athletics?

Nolan: Great question. I think there’s a lot of factors that weigh into this. There’s an increase of attention to, how do we fix and remedy some of these? When we are talking about how to discourage some of this, we have to make an emphasis with our officials, and the officials have to look out for these things. So I think there’s a natural tendency, if you will, “unintended” intended consequences for some of these rises in ejections.

Miller: Let me make sure I understand that point, first. So you’re saying that there’s more of an emphasis or, I don’t know if you call it zero tolerance, but from on high, officials are being told, “Hey, watch out for bad behavior.” And you’re saying if they’re watching out for it, they’re more likely to crack down on it – to see it, first of all, and to crack down on it?

Nolan: I think that there is an argument to be made for that. Yes, for sure.

Miller: OK, that’s different than saying that the bad behavior itself is on the rise. Do you also think that’s the case?

Nolan: I don’t think bad behavior is on the rise. I mean, I would make the argument that kids are sometimes influenced by what they see, maybe at a professional soccer match, or somewhere else. Therefore, some of those behaviors might translate to what they’re doing on the court or in the field or anywhere else on the pitch. And so I think, again, if you have an emphasis placed on something, there’s going to be an “unintended” intended consequence by seeing a rise in some of these behaviors.

And we also have had a new bunch of officials that have come in, younger officials, which we need by the way. And sometimes when there’s an emphasis placed by that, and younger officials coming in, they want to make sure they’re doing the right thing. So they’re trying to see how they can monitor, how they can adjust, and how they can fit in with trying to make sure that behaviors are addressed.

Miller: In other words, you’re saying part of this is the relative youth or inexperience of officials, that they’re less used to, what … diffusing situations?

Nolan: I wouldn’t say that it’s used to diffusing situations, but I think that if you have new officials coming in, and they’re tasked with looking at new behaviors and how to correct some of them, sometimes it’s right in front of them. Therefore, they’re looking out for it more than ever before.

Miller: Peter Weber, when you and I have talked in the past, one of the issues we’ve talked about is the relative lack of officials compared to previous years. How much do you think that what we’re seeing in terms of these ejections can be attributed to the relative newness of some of the officials who are on the field, are on the court?

Weber: Well, as Mike said, we do need officials. And we’ve seen a turnaround a little bit, not back to the numbers that we want, but certainly trending in the right direction for the numbers of officials. Some of those do include newer officials. And I think that’s where OSAA and our member schools, as education-based entities, it’s important for us when we’re talking about education for coaches and for players, that also includes education and continued training for officials as well.

Miller: You mentioned that students and coaches can be ejected. What might lead a coach to be ejected?

Weber: Well, that’s a good question. I think the ejections that we see for coaches often involve calls that they didn’t get or officials maybe didn’t see, and complaining to officials about calls, whether that’s on the soccer field or football field or a softball diamond or what have you. That tends to be most with coaches.

Miller: I imagine that simply complaining a little bit would not be enough to get an ejection, that a coach would have to get more in a ref or umpire’s face or it would have to do something a little bit more outrageous than just saying, “Hey, I disagree with that call.”

Weber: Correct. Otherwise we’d have a lot more ejections, I think. No, I think there’s going to naturally be some disagreement in situations. Honestly, as we talk about this within the association, I don’t think it’s realistic to think that there would be zero ejections, either. But I think it’s more about looking at the situation.

Obviously, you mentioned the rise over the past year or two, particularly in football and boys’ soccer. And then in talking with the members of our Association about what types of things we can do. There are obviously penalties in place. Do those need to be perhaps more stringent? What type of educational component could be put in? Currently, coaches who are ejected have to take an online sportsmanship class within seven days after the ejection. We’ve talked about including some type of online class for students, as well. Again, focus on the fact that we are education-based and we want to train up, and make sure that we’re putting the students and the coaches and the officials in the position where they can all have success.

Miller: Michael Nolan, what would you like to see, if anything, in terms of rule changes like the kinds that Peter Weber was just outlining?

Nolan: I don’t necessarily know if there need to be rule changes, and I do agree with Peter’s sentiment that we’re educational-based, and I think some of it’s at the micro and the macro level. At the micro level, I think coaches and athletes need to make sure that they’re doing things within their program to teach respect for the game the right way. There’s going to be instances in games and contests where things get heated. You can’t plan for that, but what you can control is what’s in front of you, and that’s what you and your programs and your head coaches are trying to do. And like I said, try to make sure that you’re teaching the game the right way, learning to fail and learning some resiliency along the way. And hopefully, that sportsmanship comes out of that as well.

I do think that having larger conversations at the macro level about what Peter is talking about, in terms of education-based and how can we, again, get our coaches to think “360,” in terms of what’s going on in their programs, and having more training for that. I think that’s a very pragmatic approach to some of these situations we’re facing.

Miller: Peter Weber, if I’m not mistaken, one of the potential rule changes that was under discussion was if there should be some kind of threshold. If a certain number of student athletes were ejected from a particular school, should that school suffer some kinds of consequences as a result? How do you think about that question?

Weber: Well, we have some of that in place right now for schools that have five or more ejections in a school year. The school, typically the coach of the program or the athletic director, attends an in-person sportsmanship class that following summer, typically in August before the start of the next school year. So we have some of that. I think the questions that we asked the athletic directors, and then also our delegate assembly reps a few weeks ago was, is that the right number? Should that number be decreased or increased in terms of looking at that?

Then again, back to what Mike and I were mentioning, what’s that educational component look like, in terms of, if a school has multiple ejections, either in the same program or across programs, is there an action plan that’s typically part of that required sportsmanship class that a school would attend in August? But what does that action plan look like in order to, again, raise the awareness within the program, and then talk about different ways that coaches and/or students, as as Mike said, “in the heat of the battle,” what are some best practices and things that they can do, rather than be in a situation where they might be ejected?

Miller: Peter, when you look at the data for soccer and football in particular, are there any particular patterns that stand out, if those are the standouts in terms of the increases for ejections? Is there anything that stands out obviously, in terms of specific things you could address statewide?

Weber: I think again, as we dive into those, we’ll finish up with the baseball and softball seasons here in the next couple of weeks with our playoffs. And as a staff, we’ll dive into those numbers. Looking at them in general, looking at the unsportsmanlike behavior, we see some of those things – again, particularly in football and boys soccer – rising. How can we look at best addressing those?

Miller: Michael, we’ve talked in the past on this show about the challenges that can come from parents, out of control parents or parents who get way too into the decisions made by umpires or refs or coaches, and playing time, all kinds of versions of bad behavior. Do you see a relationship between parents and student athlete behavior?

Nolan: Great question. I think there’s definitely a causation factor there, for sure. Basketball is a little more intimate because you’re in a gym and you can hear it more frequently than when you’re out on the pitch or in the football stadium. Sometimes it gets a little muddled, but I do think that in some cases, for sure, there are parents who are trying to live vicariously through their children and then can cause certain issues. On the car ride home, maybe talking about it, or if they hear their parents or unfortunately, look at their parents when they’re in the stands, that sometimes can trigger them.

So, yes, we’re always asking our parents to be partners with us as we try to correct some behaviors and mitigate some behaviors. But unfortunately, sometimes parents can be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Miller: What kinds of conversations have you had? I mean, if you’ve had these conversations at a basketball game or soccer, whatever, with parents?

Nolan: That’s another great question. I generally like to go into the stands and sit with the parents if I hear anything. I’ll just sit down and try to change the conversation right away – “Hey, did you see that play” or “Wow, how’s it going for you?”

Miller: “Why are you yelling?”

Nolan: Yeah, exactly. Anything to redirect them. And I think that sometimes can cause them to stop and think for a second, “Oh, wow. What am I doing?” But I think just being actively engaged in the realm of where they’re at is an important piece to play, especially as an athletic director, for sure.

Miller: Peter Weber, where do you see parents in this conversation?

Weber: I agree with Mike. I think parents play an important role, not just at the contest, but obviously at home as well and those expectations that are put there.  Mike and I are both parents ourselves and have students that participate and go to the contests and see the behavior. It’s that line between we want parents, fans, to be engaged in the contest, we want to be excited, and all of those things are positive. We just want to make sure that that is channeled in the right direction. Hopefully then, the students and the coaches on the field reflect that as well,

Miller: Peter Weber, my understanding is that if there are any rule changes, it’ll happen over the summer, at a meeting in July. At this point, are you expecting rule changes or just more of a doubling down on the regulations that are already on the books?

Weber: More than likely, I think we’ll maybe see a couple of tweaks. I don’t see wholesale rule changes. But based on the feedback we got from the athletic directors and from our delegate assembly representatives, I think there’s an interest in maybe adjusting and focusing, as we mentioned before, on that educational component, and making sure that we have something in place there.

But I think, in general, to Mike’s point earlier, I think the awareness and the discussion around the topic – in the winter and so far in the spring, we haven’t seen those increases that we saw in the fall with boys’ soccer, and over the last two years with football. So some of that discussion around the topic, with our schools, with our officials, I think that’s maybe helping, and we want to continue to trend in that direction and see those numbers go down.

Miller: Peter Weber and Michael Nolan, thanks very much.

Nolan: Thank you.

Weber: Thank you.

Miller: Peter Weber is the executive director of the Oregon School Activities Association, OSAA. Michael Nolan is the athletic director for Portland’s Ida B. Wells High School.

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