Every Thursday night for nine years THE THESIS has brought artists and audiences who love hip-hop together to celebrate at Kelly’s Olympian in downtown Portland. The event is Portland’s longest-running hip-hop showcase. We talk to Mac Smiff and Grant Stolle, two of the founders of THE THESIS, about creating a safe space to uplift local hip-hop artists.
Note: The following transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. For nine years now, THE THESIS showcase has celebrated and championed artists in Portland’s hip-hop scene. Their monthly shows at Kelly’s Olympian are intended to spotlight veterans in the community and introduce up-and-comers. I’m joined now by the two founders of THE THESIS. Mac Smiff is a hip-hop journalist and the editor of We Out Here Magazine. Grant Stolle is also known as the DJ Verbz. Welcome to Think Out Loud.
Mac Smiff: Thanks.
Grant Stolle: Oh, thanks, man.
Miller: Mac first, what were your goals when you helped start THE THESIS nine years ago?
Smiff: I think the goal for me was, corny as it sounds, I was really trying to advance literacy. I was trying to connect with a local college to put, I guess, more eyes on the magazine. So I was really trying to build a physical representation of the magazine which promotes literacy and reading and writing and whatnot and pushing that through hip-hop.
Miller: So a little bit of a Trojan horse. Get young people in particular to care more about words through music?
Smiff: Yeah. It’s kind of a hip-hop thing where it’s like an old hip-hop staple, you know, using hip-hop is a way to educate and connect with young people.
Miller: Grant, what about you? What were your goals when you started?
Stolle: I think it’s evolved over time. When we first started, I think early on it was just about finding a space for hip-hop in Portland, a scene that’s usually overlooked. And a community that was pressed occasionally by authorities and pushed into spaces and kicked out of venues.
So I think one of the things that I really wanted to do is make sure that we had a platform in Portland for artists that I felt just weren’t being given that that space, and that evolved into breaking down barriers within that community and also opening up the space to people who had traditionally been left out of those spaces. So that was the next goal, after initially just creating some kind of platform.
Miller: Mac, did it work from the beginning?
Smiff: The show? Absolutely. It’s kind of funny. We started off as kind of, let’s try it one time and then it was just so successful that it just became a series and then it just lasted. I didn’t think it would last more than a year, honestly, at first, but it just kept on going and it kept on growing.
Miller: Grant, did you have a long-term view in mind when you started?
Stolle: I don’t know how long-term the goal was, but I think we all saw an opportunity and something that was necessary within the community. And so, I think once we saw the original enthusiasm for things and also the original artists that we had on started developing and gaining traction within the city and being put on lists of best new artists and that kind of stuff. And that really sparked us to maintain that because I don’t think there was another platform doing quite what we were doing, and then other platforms kind of evolved from there. And artists who have done our show have now created their own platforms as well.
Miller: Let’s hear part of a song that was written, I guess, almost in tribute to this showcase. It’s called “The Thesis.” It’s by the local artist Wynne, but with a kind of who’s-who of the Portland hip-hop scene. Grant, how did this come to be?
Stolle: You know, Wynne is an artist we’ve been paying attention to for a long time. She is obviously a very talented person and she communicates and connects really well. And so one of the things that she did before her first project came out is reached out to both Mac and I, and had us come into her studio space and on her list of songs that were coming up for the album, it said, “The Thesis.” And we didn’t quite know what that meant, but then we talked to her about it and really, what it ended up evolving into was taking pieces from all over the community and putting them together, from the newest artist to the most established, to Damian Lillard, who was a big piece of evolving the hip-hop scene here in Portland, too.
So that was a collaboration that happened pretty organically. And then we came together and shot a music video for it in Pioneer Square, and it was a great moment for the people who have been involved in what we’ve been doing and, and the artists on our platform.
Miller: Let’s have a listen to the start of this. We’re going to hear Vursatyl first, a long-time MC who talks about that, with some great lines in this, followed by Wynne. Let’s have a listen:
[Music playing]
[Vursatyl]: Been ill aka Venus Fly Traps
Seven brains in one body so I dream in IMAX
Anyone, anywhere, any time, go!
Your ego is eco friendly, you don’t want smoke
Inscribed in graffiti on your CD gate fold
My capital punishment will have your lower case closed
Like a dying man’s will
Clocks got hands with no feet cause
Only Vurs can make time stand still
G.O.A.T. defeat the elite peers
I Benjamin Button bars dog, and leap years
Top of the Eiffel Tower catching lighting in bottles
To see me you’ll need MRI’s and night vision goggles
Or a closed caption to crack your spy glass
Phony, you’re full of it and your raps need a gastric bypass
God the novice, I’m marvelous even on my hiatus
The Thesis
[Wynne]: The dean of the school wants to meet with me
Cause I’m teaching my teachers things
And my old bullies want to sleep with me, honestly
I should run for mayor
Little brothers think they’re bigger than me
I’m going full Boogie Cousins baptizing ‘em it ain’t f- fair
(Free for all!) They tried to take the charge, they stick em up like the bank
(Keep the ball!) I already made all of my lemonade
When Piza falls, you’ll finally get it straight
And I can tell my therapist we can head in our separate ways
I put my lipgloss to the face
Singing baby better hide the license plates
Baby face could get away with murder, my bitches
Give em Stitches like 626, who’s this?
Snow bunny gone abominable, ominous flow, time for the snow…
Miller: That is Wynne. And we heard Vursatyl first there. The track is called “The Thesis.” It is named after the now nine year old hip-hop showcase that was started by my guest Grant Stolle, otherwise known as Verbz, and Mac Smiff, hip-hop journalist and editor of We Out Here Magazine. Mac, did everybody in the audience know that Damian Lillard was going to show up to actually be a part of this?
Smiff: Of the video? Yeah. I think they helped bring everybody out, to be honest.
MIller: So it wasn’t a surprise.
Smiff: No, it wasn’t a surprise at all. I think most people had already heard the track by the time that they got there. It was well-distributed throughout the community before it came out. So we all had a good idea of what was going on already.
Miller: Grant, I heard you say in an interview with Bruce Poinsette who was on this show not too long ago, that for some people these shows that you all put on are “like church.” What do you mean?
Stolle: Well, for me personally, I’m not involved in any kind of church community or religious community. And so once a month, this is my space to see the community and my friends and get most of the hugs I get in a month, and see the creatives from the photographers and videographers to our graphic designer, to all the different musicians. And our headliner will be in the crowd next month for the next artist because that’s just the community that we’ve engendered here.
And so, it feels a lot like a church in that gathering way - that you’re using music and people are preaching and speaking their truth and their gospel up on stage. So to me, that’s the closest thing I have to church. I’d say that that was my point there.
Miller: Mac, what do these shows mean to you personally?
Smiff: I mean, it’s the same, I used to always joke that no one pays more for THE THESIS than I do, but it’s like a mandatory thing that has to happen for me every month. It’s like a dinner at grandma’s type of thing, you know, we have to be there and people always show up and people are always there for it. And every month I talk to someone that just really needed that night, just really needed that day of community. I never knew that all of these people existed here in this city in the first place and to be able to create a place consistently for folks to come and feel alive and feel free and feel safe, I think is just super important within our culture.
Miller: Mac, can you introduce us to Dani Danger before we hear one of her tracks?
Smiff: Dani Danger is a super amazing artist from out here. She’s originally from Jamaica and just has an amazing voice. We’ve had her for a number of shows and she has never disappointed in the slightest, just really an amazingly powerful voice as well as just a great person in general.
Miller: Let’s have a listen. This is “Addicted to Love.”
[Music playing]
[Dani Danger]: Gettin’ real deep in it
Stand so tall, hands so strong
Yeah, ya six feet in it
Ya touch drives me up the wall
It’s the rise and the fall
So emotional
I don’t know how you break me down
I’m drowning
Maybe it’s the drugs
The liquor
The sex
My issues
Or all the above but we call this thing love
I know I’m faded
Cause deep down
I hate cha
I cant get enough
Addicted to Love
Addicted to Love (oh)...
Miller: That’s Dani Danger’s “Addicted to Love.” Grant, what do you look for in the artists you feature?
Stolle: I look for all kinds of different things because we want to make sure our lineup is unique every month. And so, sometimes it’ll be a reggaeton focus, sometimes it’ll be straight hip-hop, sometimes we’ll go R&B. So, genre wise, I’m very fluid in that way. You know, we’ll have pop music on, we’ve had some rockers on our stage.
I think what we’re looking for in terms of artists is combining the artistry with the hustle and determination to be an artist, and it’s really easy to find one or the other. There’s a lot of people who really hustle hard but don’t have a lot of artistry in their work. There’s a lot of artists who don’t know how to capitalize on their artistry and don’t combine that with the hustle side of things that is part of hip-hop…
Miller: And getting their music into people’s ears, somehow.
Stolle: Right, and also keeping it consistent and recording and keeping that going when they hit creative walls and that kind of stuff. So we’re looking for artists that really seem determined to do it and then also passionate community members, people who are coming out to the Showcase are more likely to be on our show again. And other people who are setting up opportunities for others, I think are other artists that we look at as well. And then it’s just that spark that we see in some artists where it’s, oh, this is such a unique talent, we have to figure out how to get them on our stage, and be behind them, because after doing this, you know, 90-some times we have a view of what it takes to not only perform your music but engage with the audience as well, and build your audience and build on that.
Also, we’re looking for people who are creating something, too. So if they have new releases and that kind of stuff, that’s something we’re looking for, because they’re putting that time and energy into their art. And we want to make sure when they get on our stage, we’re one of the showcases that you can come and be paid for your art in Portland and you don’t have to sell tickets to get on a stage, and there’s no lineup list that you have to get through. It’s just- we curate something that we think is unique and cool for each month and you can’t buy your way onto THE THESIS. So we don’t water down our product that way.
Miller: Mac, I’ve heard you say that you also don’t want to just have only guys on a stage some evenings, say. As you’ve diversified the performance lineups, has that led to different audiences?
Smiff: Yeah, and I would actually clarify that. I would actually say that I never want to have all guys on the stage. That’s probably the worst thing ever.
Stolle It’s our rule. That’s a permanent rule. Well, it was something that we realized early on that needed to change within the community and so we wanted to make sure that every single one of our showcases features women and also queer artists, LGBTQ artists, that have often not felt comfortable in those spaces. We want to make sure that they’re safe to be on our stage and represented within lineups, not just a Pride month lineup, but within our showcase throughout the year.
Smiff: And to that end, I think it’s definitely expanded our audience, for sure. I think in the beginning, going back a few years, there were folks that were concerned, you know, oh, no what are they doing? They’re making this super open, or whatever else. But I think that those people who think like that, typically speaking, are not the best customers in the first place, the best patrons in the first place, and you find that as soon as you open the doors to all people - and not just to open the doors, but to make it it safe, feeling safe for all people. I think that you start to really see how big your audience really is. I think that for a while just as a couple of guys at the only shows, we were actually missing out on a huge section of our audience. And by opening up our eyes and opening up our arms to do more, we’ve really been able to bring that in.
Miller: Let’s listen to another song. It’s called “Yikes,” by Mal London. We’ll hear a little bit and then we can talk about it.
[Music playing}
[Mal London]: I got way too m- issues
To be acting like I miss you
Home and alone when I miss you
I don’t even got no excuse
I laid my head with a messouse
Laid out all my issues
Feelings I get when I’m with you
I don’t know what I should do, uh huh
I don’t know what I should do, uh huh
I got way too m- issues, uh huh
I don’t know what I should do, uh huh
I got way too m- issues, uh huh
Malcolm the middle, man this how I’m living
I don’t even see more to defend it
Lay the scene, laid the scene
Who’s the, I don’t see nothing
I seen before, a- shaking
On the floor, panoramic
With my eyes, fam
Know I need to be leave before
Before, fore four
Hov was on the same thing
Lifestyle, tryna maintain
Loads up on the champagne
Sippin knowing what I gotta change
Picture perfect can I maintain…
Miller: Grant, what should we know about Mal London?
Stolle: You know, I was out of town for this last show. I’ve missed two shows in our 94 shows. And so Mac, actually, do you want to tell him about Mal’s performance?
Smiff: I mean, Mal’s a great performer. He’s just a cool guy in general, fun kid to really just be around. He’s got a great audience, a great support system, hangs around with JxJury and a couple of those cool guys that do a lot of stuff for downtown and he’s just fun. He’s really got the ear of his generation and I think that people really respect him and what he does as far as his craft goes.
Miller: It’s Interesting hearing you talk about a kid and his generation. At this point, where do you put yourselves in terms of the generations?
Smiff: I mean, Verbz is still young. I’m an old dog.
Stolle: This is lies, we’re both old. Let’s be real. I think we’ve both been in the Portland music community long enough to see generations come and go. So I think we have seen groups come up together and develop together. We’ve seen individual groups and what we consider generations of people coming through. And so, yeah, Mal has come up with the next group that we’ve come up with, but there’s always someone right behind them.
Miller: Lambo Lawson is another artist that you gave us a track to listen to. We’re going to hear, “Put It On God.” Who’s Lambo Lawson?
Stolle: Lambo Lawson is one of my favorite artists in the city. I feel like Mac will probably agree with that. He’s just very cool. He’s very down. He’s confident in his style. He came from the East Coast and moved out here a few years ago and immediately ingratiated himself within the community and really tried to connect with different people and different crowds, and he’s really talented and makes good music.
When we did our Showcase on the Portland Spirit a couple of months ago, we had him perform. He chose to perform, “Put It On God.” And I think that was probably the highlight of the evening. The crowd went the craziest for that one. I was blown away by the response to it. I just like Lambo a lot. I think also, we’ve had him on so many times on our show and he’s always someone that we could call on to jump into a lineup, and he’s a great headliner, but he’ll jump into any space, so I love Lambo.
Miller: This is “Put It On God,” by Lambo Lawson
[Music playing]
[Lambo Lawson]: …Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God
How many keys
I got a lot
Bringin em in
Shippin em out
I’m in the streets
I’m on the block
Got it on me
Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God (Yeah)
Put it on God
How many keys
I got a lot
Bringin em in
Shippin em out
I’m in the streets
I’m on the block
Got it on me
Put it on God…
Miller: This is Lambo Lawson. Mac, Grant mentioned that he came from the East Coast. I think people like Aminé or The Last Artful, Dodgr, people who come from Portland to make it big and then they went to LA - Is that still the dream of a lot of hip-hop folks here? To go to Southern California or New York or Atlanta or Chicago? You know, bigger cities with bigger scenes, as opposed to staying here?
Smiff: You know, it’s interesting. It’s gotten to the point, I think that definitely exists. There’s always gonna be those kids that grow up in Portland and they want to make it big and go to LA or New York or Miami and become a rap star, and I think that’s cool. But what you actually see a lot, as I see with Lambo, or what we saw before with Myke Bogan or The Last Artful, Dodgr, is that a lot of artists are coming to Portland to try and stake a claim. A lot of artists are coming here to try and see if they can buzz out of here and then take that and bump up to the next space. So I think that there’s a bit of both.
I think there’s folks that are looking to come here and be someone. If we go just down south, Gavlyn, an artist from Cali who is actually in Corvallis now, living out here, looking at Portland to make rap music. So I think that that’s still a thing of blowing up and getting out of your city, but also I think that the people are blowing up in bigger cities and coming to Portland to live.
Miller: Mac and Grant, thanks very much and congratulations.
Stolle: Yeah. Appreciate it.
Smiff: Thank you.
Miller: Grant Stolle is the DJ known as Verbz. He’s one of the co-founders of THE THESIS, the monthly hip-hop showcase. It’s normally at Kelly’s Olympian in downtown Portland. Mac Smiff founded it with him. He is a hip-hop journalist and editor of We Out Here Magazine.
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