Black influencers reflect on traveling to Oregon

Anthony and Marlie Love created a YouTube channel called “Traveling While Black in Seattle.” In it, they explore the region and detail their experiences. They say they want to let other Black people know where they encountered racism to inform their travel choices. The Loves recently visited Portland and covered it on their series. Overall, they say the trip was pretty fun and they felt mostly comfortable.

Meanwhile, Nelson Holland is an outdoor influencer based in Colorado. “Fat, Black and Gettin’ It” on TikTok and Instagram details Holland’s adventures hiking and exploring nature. He recently visited Bend to work with Jenny Bruso, the founder of “Unlikely Hikers,” on a photo shoot with Eddie Bauer. After arriving, he was called a racial slur by people in a moving vehicle. He said the experience changed his plans during the trip and he questions whether or not he’ll visit Oregon again.

Holland and Anthony and Marlie Love join us with details of their experiences visiting Oregon.

The following transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.

Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB. This is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. Three years ago, Marlie and Anthony Love started a youtube channel called Traveling While Black in Seattle. Almost 100 episodes in, it’s a travel log with a twist. In each episode they detail their experience in a city or on a hike or at a sporting event. Then they give it three grades. One for the drive to get there, one for how much fun they had, and one for how comfortable they felt as Black people visiting the place for the first time. Anthony and Marlie join us now to talk about their series and their most recent episode, their visit to Portland. Welcome to TOL.

Guests: Hey thank you so much, thanks for having us.

Miller: Thanks for joining us. Marlie first. How did you both decide to create this account?

Marlie Love: Well, we moved from St Louis, Missouri to Seattle in 2019, and at first that summer everyone was coming to visit. We had friends and family and then around October we were like ‘okay, no one’s here but we still want to explore’. We weren’t really sure what places we would feel most comfortable. And so we googled, and we even went up to Vancouver, British Columbia and on the way back we said let’s make a resource for other people like us that have those questions, aren’t really sure. And also it can help us get out and explore our new city.

Miller: When you say you googled and tried to do some research, what were you what were you looking for? I mean, I’m wondering what did you google?

Marlie: I googled “Black people in these places”, or “Black travel to Seattle” or “Black travel to Vancouver, Canada”. And I said, ‘how many Black people are in Vancouver Canada?’ I wasn’t really sure about that. So when I was googling it, I would get some information, but not enough to really make me feel comfortable about just going to someplace random.

Miller: So Anthony, you looked for a resource to get some advice, to get some help, and you couldn’t find it. So you figured you’d make it yourselves.

Anthony: Yep, exactly, that’s what we did. We saw there was a need that could be filled by us, and we said, ‘okay, we can do this’. I think the next question for us was how do we do it? And that’s where we were able to think back to when we saw the Motorist’s Green Book at Marlie’s grandmother’s house years ago. And so we pulled a little inspiration from that [and] let that be the basis of our show.

Miller: For people who might not be familiar with that book, can you describe it? And this was for many decades in the middle of the 20th century, what was it?

Anthony: Absolutely, yes. So the Motorist’s Green Book was basically a guide for Black motorists traveling in the United States. It was started by Victor Green back in, oh, it was, I believe in the ‘30s, Marlie? You can google that. But basically Victor Green started it essentially. It was a guide that gave Black motorists a directory of Black-friendly places from stores to the motels to restaurants. And it was really important at that time because it was started at a time when a lot of Black people were starting to get automobiles and traveled throughout the United States. The United States at the time was filled with Jim Crow in the South and other racially-motivated laws out west and then throughout all of the United States.

Miller: How do you figure when you decide you’re going to go to some place? How do you figure where to go and what to do to give yourselves and your viewers the best sense for a kind of one-off experience as Black people traveling there?

Marlie: So basically whenever we are thinking about where we want to go, where we want to film, we think about things that people would enjoy doing.

So, I’m so sorry, can you answer that question [once more]?

Miller: How you figure out what to focus on, and how to get sort of a representative version, even if you’re just doing it for one day, of the place that you’re going to visit?

Marlie: I’ll pass it to Anthony.

Anthony: So that’s a great question. When we first started, we were new to Seattle. So we had general questions about Seattle and then even the whole state of Washington. But as we’ve grown in sort of popularity, a lot of the folks that follow our content have been sending us recommendations. And so what we do now is, Marlie and I, every month, we sit down and we try to plan like that month’s episodes. We go back and we look at those suggestions and recommendations, and we try to find a theme, and places that fit within that theme to go to. So that’s basically how we choose what places to visit now.

Miller: I noted that you’re nearing 100 episodes. You’ve been at this for almost three years. I’m curious if you can think of highlights, places that you really loved for whatever reason. Marlie, what stands out to you?

Marlie: I think for me, I love going to the islands up on the coast, or it’s not really the coast, but like Vashon Island, Bainbridge Island, Whidby Island. With the islands, I think just growing up in the Midwest and not really being around a lot of water, no island, I just think it’s so cool to be able to experience that and to go to a beach that’s 15 minutes away. I think that’s probably my biggest highlight.

Miller: Anthony. What about you?

Anthony: Right now, I have to say probably my favorite is Ocean Shores. Just because it’s right there on the coast, and that was my first experience being on the beach where you can drive on. I know for folks living on the West Coast, like, ‘it was your first?’, but like Marlie said, coming from the Midwest, that was totally new to us, and we thought it was pretty cool. After we got done filming, we just pulled the car up, popped up the hood and pulled out some chairs and sat and watched the water, the beautiful water. So I have to say Ocean Shores, for sure.

Miller: I have to say not growing up on the West Coast either, I was super surprised the first time I saw people just driving onto the beach, it made no sense to me. So I’m curious, for both those examples, both sort of beachy examples, how do they rate for you in terms of Black-friendliness?

Marlie: Yeah, all those examples rated very high for Black friendliness and I think I don’t even know if we saw a lot of Black people out there, honestly, but it was just a great vibe. It was fun, and everyone seemed really friendly. So those rated really, really high.

Miller: Anthony for the most part it seems that your trips have gone well. When I looked at your overall spreadsheet, looking at the 1-to-5 score for comfort ability in terms of being a Black traveler. It’s mainly fives, but not Forks, Washington. That was the only place that you gave a one. What happened there?

Anthony: Yes. So that was interesting. It sounds weird to say, but I’m thankful for the experience, because it’s sort of tested Marlie and I’s, for lack of better words, social experiment, right? And somewhere you look at the show. But when we went there, we went there to go see Twilight, we knew it as the Twilight town. And we were there to check out the Twilight Tour. So when we pulled into the town, there was a restaurant off to the side and said, ‘okay, let’s stop, get something to eat before we start filming’. When we walked in there, it was everything that you would think you would feel and like Jim Crow era. Everybody stopped, looked at us, stared at us. Nobody working the establishment came and greeted us for at least I say 10 minutes. I’d say it was a while. And when someone did, they weren’t very friendly. Set us on the table in the middle of the establishment, threw down the menus and we didn’t see that individual anymore, at least at our table. She was serving other tables, but not our table. Eventually someone did come up and wasn’t too much friendlier, but they did take our order. And they’re just the vibe in the place. You can look around, see people giving us kind of like stares and and not like curious stares, but kind of dangerous stares, for lack of better words. So we got done as fast as we could. Went, filmed, and we happened to be staying overnight that night. And we just started looking up what about Forks? What did we miss in our research? And come to find out, there were several incidents that happened not too long before we had arrived, where other Black travelers and other travelers outside of the Black community received threats, and just very bad situations and we had no idea. So I just remember us sleeping with the chair under the door, just prepared to get out of there the first thing in the morning, which we did. I think we got up before the sun came up, right?

Marlie: Like right when it was like 5 a.m. on a Sunday morning, we rolled out of bed and jumped in the car.

Miller: Marlie, What happened after you posted that video? I’m curious what you heard from, if you heard anything from people who live there or from your followers.

Marlie: So from our followers, people said ‘we completely agree’. We definitely have felt that way. Black individuals have felt that way. And even individuals, white individuals have said yes, we get it. I would not recommend that place as well. So we felt validated that we weren’t imagining this, what was happening to us. We did have some Forks, or I think the Forks Chamber of Commerce commented and said,’hey, we’d like to invite you guys out for, you know, maybe a better experience’. But we said there’s no way we’re going back up there. It’s like, is that a trap?

Miller: One and done for Forks.

Marlie: So yeah, one and done. Even though the whole rainforest is up there. So we did do additional episodes there, and we still recommend definitely checking out the whole whole rainforest. It’s just, it’s beautiful. We just do not recommend Forks, Washington.

Miller: You went to Portland recently, you went to Pittock Mansion, Voodoo Donuts, a Blazers game. I want to play an excerpt from near the end of your episode where you talk about the comfortability score for Black people. Let’s have a listen: [Audio replay]: Marlie: ‘On our trip, almost everyone we encountered and spoke to, well, almost everyone, was really friendly and engaging, but still there was an interesting feeling in the air that didn’t lend to 100% comfortability’. Anthony: ‘Other than a mini red flag moment at the hotel bar, the people of Portland we encountered were great. Still the feeling we felt, that’s hard to articulate in words, prevented us from unanimously giving a five out of five.’ Marlie: ‘With the history of the state and the city, we wanted to be sure we paid extra attention to the grade we gave for this episode.’ Anthony: ‘So we’ll just say that the grade we give is strictly from a Black couple that dropped in the city for one day. Meaning, if you’re staying longer, you gotta have to let us know.’ Marlie: ‘We will be back in Oregon again. But next time for the nature and for this time based on our one day experience in the city, we give a four out of five for comfortability for Black people.’” [End audio replay]

Miller: Marlie, I know you both said it’s hard to put this into words, so maybe it’s hard to be asked about this, but I’m really curious about the vibe you got. Can you give us a sense for what it is that you felt?

Marlie: [In] Portland, there are a lot more white individuals there. You really don’t see a lot of people of color in the city. And I think in general, when you don’t see a lot of people that look like you, originally just put some type of uneasiness on you. So I think that’s one thing. I will say also when we mentioned the hotel bar, we were there, we asked, we heard some people ask the bartender a question about a restaurant and where they could go. And it was two white gentlemen, and she was very excited, cool, happy to talk to them about it. And then we asked another quick question, and she just talked to us flat, wouldn’t really say anything else. And we’re like, ‘oh my gosh, that was like a complete 180 conversation’. And so that’s my feeling of why it was a little uneasy.

Miller: Anthony, will you come back to Oregon?

Anthony: Absolutely, absolutely. We are in fact coming back to Oregon because it’s beautiful out there, and we want to check out some of the nature that you all have. So that’s a big part of our show too, is checking out that stuff, and so we will be back to Oregon for sure.

Miller: Anthony and Marlie, thanks very much for joining us.

Guests: Thank you so much for having us.

Miller: Anthony and Marlie Love are the creators of the “Traveling While Black In Seattle” YouTube channel. We turn now to Nelson Holland. Holland is an outdoor influencer based in Colorado. He details his hiking and exploring adventures on Tiktok and Instagram. His handle is FatBlackandGettinIt. He went to Bend recently to work on a photo shoot for Eddie Bauer. If the vibe of slight discomfort that Anthony and Marlie felt while traveling in Oregon was hard to put into words, that’s not the case for Nelson Holland. Soon after he arrived in Bend, he was called a racial slur by somebody in a passing vehicle. He joins us now to talk about that experience and his social media platform. Welcome to the show.

Nelson Holland: Thanks for having me.

Miller: Why did you start Fat Black and Gettin’ It?

Holland: Well I started going on social media just to show the views I was seeing. I hang out with wildlife a lot. I’ve seen like a herd of 200 bison right in front of me. So I just wanted to show my friends and family that type of stuff. Fat Black and Gettin it came later. I turned the camera on myself and it turned into something a little different.

Miller: Did it also get more attention when you turn the camera on yourself?

Holland: Yeah, it seemed like it just added an extra layer to everything. So people were experiencing my joy instead of just watching the view or the animals, and people have been really receptive to that.

Miller: What have you found that your audience is most eager for?

Holland: The serenity that comes with nature. I get a lot of comments saying that I make such wholesome content. So I guess wholesomeness?

Miller: In a world that could use some of that. Have the videos that you make, have they changed over time?

Holland: Definitely, from when I first started. But I like to think that my focus has always been the nature, right? And I’m just kind of showing my experience in it.

Miller: So what brought you to Bend recently?

Holland: Eddie Bauer and Unlikely Hikers. It’s an awesome organization that has a bunch of plus-size and LGBTQIA-friendly hikers, and they were doing a photo shoot in Bend, Oregon, and some rock climbing out there.

Miller: Did you have any ideas about what Oregon would be like before you arrived?

Holland: Honestly that’s kind of the funny part in all this. I’ve gotten a lot of comments with people that think I have a preconceived notion of Oregon. And you know what? I think that I should have, as a person of color, but I didn’t. I don’t know if that was because I went with a large organization, or maybe just because I’ve been letting my guard down traveling to all these nature places recently. But no, I had no idea what Oregon would be like other than I knew it would be beautiful.

Miller: Do you mind telling us the story of what happened on that first day?

Holland: So basically where I was staying was about three miles outside of town and there was a smaller lodge. So there wasn’t really anywhere to even get water after they closed, definitely nowhere to really get food. So I walked into town earlier in the evening, probably not even the evening yet, maybe like four o’clock or something like that. And there’s about a three mile walk into town. Once I got to town, I went to the grocery store and I was a little uneasy. The walk into town on trail was was pretty friendly actually. Even though I could tell I was in an affluent area, the people were really nice and receptive and waving at me. The last person that I passed before I got into town just ignored me though, which was kind of interesting. And then as I started walking into town, people would walk, across the block away from me and wouldn’t smile or wave or anything like that. Once I got to the grocery store there were a couple of nice people in there, but just like a bunch of stares and everything, which isn’t something that I’m unused to. But then I wanted to check out all these barbecues just about a block away from the Safeway in town. And as I was crossing the street, somebody called me a racial slur.

Miller: What did you do after that?

Holland: Well I was going to sit down at the restaurant next to Baldy’s, because Baldy’s is only take out, and I wanted to dine in since I was traveling. But after that I didn’t think that I would like sitting with that many people. So I decided just to get the take out and got an Uber home and spent the night in my room.

Miller: What kinds of responses did you get online after you told people what happened?

Holland: That’s when I found out a lot of the problematic things that have happened in the area. I heard about the bar shooting the year before, and I heard that maybe even just a month ago before the time that I had visited, that the high schoolers in the local high school or their parents of people of color, I think Black people specifically, had taken their kids out of school because they were all being called racial slurs in school. At that time my followers and my friends let me know that ‘yeah, you are in a problematic area and you should stay safe and let people know where you are’.

Miller: The next day, you stuck with your plan and you met up with Jenny Bruso, the founder of the group Unlikely Hikers, who I should say we talked to a couple of years ago, and folks want to check out that conversation with her. What was that day like for you?

Holland: It was awesome and completely turned my trip around. Jenny is as supportive as she looks on social media. So as soon as I told her what I went through, she was saddened and just gave me all the support. Sabrina Wilson was with me, and she’s a Black woman, so she definitely could identify with what I was feeling. And Sam Ortiz obviously also is a woman of color. So supportive conversation with [people] who have now become a few of my friends, and they turned my head space around to where I could just enjoy the day hiking with them and climbing for the first time, because I had never climbed before that.

Miller: How would you feel about coming back to Oregon?

Holland: I’ve had a lot of mixed feelings on it since then. I think where I landed, and this is very much thanks to those women that I just mentioned in the wonderful day that I had, as well as other women, like she runs mountains and there’s just like a lot of women that were involved that day that completely changed my perspective of the area. But I do think I would come back. I definitely wouldn’t drive. I wanted to take a road trip through there, but I don’t think I would do that. And I would only go with a local that knows the area well.

Miller: Nelson Holland, thanks very much for your time today.

Holland: Thanks for having me.

Miller: That’s Nelson Holland. He is an outdoor influencer. You can find him on Tiktok and Instagram. Look for Fat Black And Gettin’ It.

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