Lester Griffin launched The Foundation nearly two years ago in response to his own experiences with the criminal justice system and the support he wished he had as a youth growing up in Vancouver. The nonprofit provides resources for at-risk teens and young adults such as job development skills, mentorship and community service opportunities. It also helps adults recently released from incarceration by providing them free boxes of food, hygiene supplies and access to a team of navigators with lived experience to support their reentry into society.
The Columbian previously wrote about The Foundation and, more recently, about Griffin’s efforts to open a transitional housing complex in Vancouver in the coming weeks for people released from prison. The Restored Transitional Complex will have 14 beds, a communal living area and aims to provide stable housing for occupants for up to a year. Griffin joins us to share more details, along with Ajay Harnage, a formerly incarcerated individual who hopes to move into the new facility.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. Lester Griffin launched a nonprofit called The Foundation about two years ago in response to his own experiences with the criminal justice system. The nonprofit helps adults who’ve been recently released from incarceration with food, hygiene supplies and access to a team of navigators with lived experience to support their reentry. The group also provides for at-risk teens and young adults to help prevent them from getting caught up in the criminal justice system in the first place.
As The Colombian wrote recently, The Foundation is about to expand its services. It’s gonna open a 14-bed transitional housing complex in Vancouver. Lester Griffin joins us now to talk about this, along with Ajay Harnage. He was released from prison last year. He hopes to move into the new facility. Welcome to you both.
Lester Griffin: Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Ajay Harnage: Thank you.
Miller: Lester, first – why did you decide to create a housing complex for people leaving lockup as part of this whole suite of services you offer?
Griffin: Yeah, it started back in 2018. I started a construction company and I would hire individuals coming home from incarceration. These are buddies and people that I knew from when I was inside with them. So I wouldn’t notice it. I would take notice of it right then and there, but it came to me later, like the living conditions of the situations they were in. It might be four people in a two-bedroom complex. Just some of the conditions didn’t seem too good for reintegrating, especially if someone did 10-15 years in prison. And then you go from a prison cell to sharing a bedroom with another adult. The transition, I don’t feel, was pretty smooth.
So some of these people I would see, they ended up going to homelessness, drug use, and a few of them back to incarceration.
Miller: And you connect some of that to their living situations.
Griffin: Of course, because I’ve also seen it on the other end. I came home to a family, so I had somewhere to go. And I’ve also seen people come home who, even if it was a sibling or a parent that they went to live with, they were able to transition a little better with just that simple support.
Miller: I’m curious about your own story of what made the difference to you, because when you got out from being incarcerated, since that time, you created your own business, you created a foundation. How did you do it?
Griffin: It all started from my transformation of self inside, while I was still inside, and just ideas and goals that I’ve had. I wrote in a composition book, some of the ideas I had of things that I wanted to do: own a home, be a landlord, own a business.
Miller: This is when you were behind bars.
Griffin: This is when I was behind bars.
Miller: And did that just come from inside you?
Griffin: It did. I think those are things that I’ve always wanted to do but was never taught exactly what those steps were, as I was growing up. So I think having that time … I got sentenced in 2008 to 24 years in prison. I was able to come home after nine of those years due to an appeal process and the help of the Innocence Project in Washington. During that time though, you have a lot of that time over your head, plus you’re sitting there doing that time in real time, it just was a chance for me to kind of sit back, reflect and start thinking, read a lot of books, watching certain shows.
Miller: OK, so all of that, that was while you were still locked up, that kind of personal transformation leading to just saying to yourself, I’m going to be a different person when I get out. What about when you did get out? How did you actually stay that line you set for yourself?
Griffin: You know, I think I was just kind of in that zone. By the time I came home, I was 33, 34. So, I guess I had matured. And then having kids – my son was 15. He was 6 when I went in, 15 when I came home. My daughter was 1, she was 10. They were in sports. They both played multiple sports.
Miller: Did you have a connection to them when you were behind bars?
Griffin: Yes, yes.
Miller: So you maintained a sense of your family and they knew who you were.
Griffin: Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I actually got married while I was inside. So we were able to have conjugal visits and things like that. And then they would come up on regular visit days and special events.
Miller: Ajay, you got out more recently. What was the beginning of your reentry like?
Harnage: It was scary. The beginning of reentry was very scary. I was very unsure of what I was going to do, once I actually arrived home.
Miller: Did you have anything like Lester’s sort of personal transformation when you were incarcerated?
Harnage: Absolutely.
Miller: So you had the same sort of, I was gonna say come to Jesus, but come to yourself moment where you’re like, when I get out I’m gonna be a different person.
Harnage: I did, hands down. I knew when I got out I was going to be a better version of the man that I was before I went.
Miller: Is that different than most people you were locked up with? How common is that?
Harnage: It is pretty common. It’s very common for people to wanna make a change because once you have that time hanging over your head and you’re doing that time, it’s almost like you hit the replay button on your life and then you get to think about all the decisions that you made that got you there. And then you think, when I do get my freedom back, how am I going to stay out of this position? I need to be successful and I need to set up a structure to make sure that I can just check those goals off of everything that I want to accomplish.
Miller: But I think that the reason we’re talking today, the reason, Lester, that you are doing the work you’re doing and are starting this new transitional housing complex is because, even if you have this idea of transformation and of positive change, it’s not easy to make that happen.
So Ajay, you said that you were scared when you got out. What was scary?
Harnage: Not being successful. Coming out, and not having support, and not having the help. I liken it to if you want to start a new hobby and you’re not good at it, most people will do what? They’ll quit, they’ll give up. It’s the same as when we come home from prison. If we know we want to do good and we want to be a functioning member in this society, if you are shot down at any point or you don’t feel like you have the help or the resources available to you, you’ll quit, you’ll resort back to what got you into that predicament in the first place.
Miller: Let’s talk about some specifics, like how hard was it or easy was it to get a job?
Harnage: I got a job within the first two months of coming home.
Miller: That seems easy then, or am I misreading that situation?
Harnage: Well, at first it was difficult because you’re applying and you keep getting shot down. I was applying for a lot of jobs, and then finally one came up and I took it.
Miller: Would folks ask about your criminal record or if you had one?
Harnage: Absolutely.
Miller: And was that a reason that when you were applying, applying, applying that you didn’t get a job for two months? It’s hard to know, I suppose.
Harnage: It’s very hard to know. I can just speculate and I would assume that would be the reason. Then once you get the job, coming home on this graduated reentry, you have to coordinate everything with your correction officer, with your employer and that …
Miller: Because you were still under a whole bunch of rules from the state. Correct?
Harnage: I was still incarcerated.
Miller: Even though you were out and about.
Harnage: Correct.
Miller: Technically incarcerated, but you looked free.
Harnage: Yes.
Miller: Did you feel free?
Harnage: No.
Miller: Do you feel free now?
Harnage: I do. I do feel free now, but what comes with it is this lingering anxiety of just not getting it right, even though I’m doing all the steps and I’m aware of the support that I do have upon coming home. I connected with Lester and he helped with, like you said, the hygiene, boxes of food and gift cards for me to get my clothes and whatnot, and work clothes. It was just a tremendous help. And anytime that I got down on myself, I would turn to people like Lester and my family members for support. It’s what’s helped keep me going. When you see that light and you know that other people care, it’s easier to keep going. So it’s just I got a lot of adoration for what he’s doing right now.
Miller: Where did you first live when you got out a year and four months ago?
Harnage: I went to an Oxford House.
Miller: A recovery house for people dealing with substance use disorder.
Harnage: Correct. Exactly.
Miller: Not a lot of people are familiar with that. We’ve done an hour from an Oxford House in, I think it was Albany, Oregon. Was that a good place for your first place out of prison?
Harnage: I believe it was a good place. It’s definitely provided structure, and I got a lot of love and respect for those guys that I was with. But you’re not around like-minded people. I was incarcerated. So I didn’t have strong ties to that community, the Oxford community, but I do have strong ties with people that are incarcerated.
Miller: What does that mean, just in terms of thinking about roommates? When you say you have strong ties to people who were incarcerated, who know what it’s like to be in prison or jail, what does that mean in practice?
Harnage: When you’re incarcerated, there’s a level of respect within your living environment. So it’s like privacy and just courtesy. It can be things so little that it’s hard to explain.
Miller: Lester, you’re nodding and laughing here. What are you hearing that Ajay is not saying, that our audience should understand?
Griffin: Well, basically inside of prison, everybody has this invisible line, right? There’s a line of respect and boundaries. When you come home, say for instance, even in a grocery store, things like that, somebody might just reach … like there’s just a different level of respect.
Miller: So in the grocery store, someone might get closer to you than they would ever get in prison?
Griffin: Right. Without some kind of warning or something. I don’t know.
Miller: They’re reaching for the Frosted Flakes, but you’re wired to think, “why are they getting in my space?”
Griffin: Maybe, why are they getting into your space. Maybe not necessarily on the defense, like something violent may happen, but sometimes … So like, in prison, somebody may wait until you walk away from the Frosted Flakes. And then go grab it. But out here, somebody’s in a hurry, they might reach by you, say, “Excuse me,” while they’re reaching. Then all of a sudden it’s like they don’t understand that they just invaded your little 3 foot space, that you’ve had this box around for how many years you were in prison.
Harnage: It’s uncomfortable.
Miller: And if you’re sharing a bathroom, then those things or whatever in a kind of roommate situation …
Griffin: And in an Oxford home where you’re talking about recovery and things like that, where individuals may think different as far as boundaries and how they move.
Miller: Lester, The Columbian reported recently that according to the Department of Corrections in Washington, prisons there don’t often release inmates directly into homelessness, and that some sentences require community supervision, like what Ajay was talking about, and an address for someone to go to before they can be released. Does that not solve the problem that you’re working on?
Griffin: I would say no. Because what solves the problem is … OK, so like Ajay, right? That’s a special case. When he talks about the job situation, things like that, he said he’s going for these certain jobs because Ajay had a career before he went away. So when he comes back, he’s thinking if I can get back in that kind of career, that kind of mindset. But then he has to shift that and say, OK, well I’m gonna get this kind of job. So the mindset of the person, it’s like yeah … when DLC release you, if there isn’t a structure set up for you, then some things just aren’t enough, I guess. So, in short, no. The answer is no.
Miller: What kinds of services or social support do you want to provide at this new facility?
Griffin: For us, outside of just being able to have a place where they’ll be housed … Like you mentioned, the 14 beds, these are actually seven units in their two-bedroom complexes. So at least individuals can have their own bedroom. They won’t exactly have their own unit, but they have their own bedroom and I believe that’s a start. Then we have a reentry program that we will run, which is kind of a basics of everyday life that you and I may not think about, but a person that’s coming home just may need to be reminded real quick. And it’s a booklet. The curriculum was made by the president of our board. It’s called STARS.
Then we have financial literacy courses and we have connections with different banks – Umpqua, Credit Unions, HAPO – and also other individuals that provide services of financial literacy. And then there’s also something that I believe is going to be helpful. It’s kind of like Victims Awareness, but we’re having restorative justice circles. We plan to have those quarterly, where the community could come in and we kind of just have these conversations.
Miller: Why do you want that to be a part of this?
Griffin: Well, because it’s for both. It’s for everyone, right? So if you’re someone that’s coming home from prison and you lived a certain lifestyle, you may not have victim awareness. Because in your mind, you’ve never been a victim. Like some people could go to prison and not really feel guilty. Because they’re like, well, I was a part of something and everything was violent or everything was this way. So how would I know what the victim was?
And then there’s the victim who automatically assumes that there [are] individuals like Ajay or myself that’s coming home, and planning to have these ideas of being a successful individual, and to reintegrate into the community successfully and fair. To be a good neighbor, whether it’s just being a good neighbor, or starting organizations or businesses, and are just going to work every day. So the average neighbor could come in and see that. Like, OK there [are] people coming home from prison and they may just need some simple support. It may be a business owner that may be hiring and get to meet someone, get to learn their trauma, what someone went through and be like, OK, these are humans, right?
Then you have an individual that’s never been involved in either, they’ve never been a victim, they’ve never been anything. They maybe just heard of things happening. They get to hear things from a victim’s standpoint and, for lack of a better word, perpetrators.
Miller: Ajay, is this something you want to take part in?
Harnage: Absolutely.
Miller: Does it scare you at all?
Harnage: No, it’s actually intriguing to me. I think, especially with my situation, it would be good for me to hear what they would have to say from the victim’s perspective. I would love to know how they were impacted. I think that that’s something that’s going to be huge. So I like that. I like the thought of that. I will definitely be a part of that.
Miller: Lester, when you were talking about some of the education pieces that you’d like to provide, it did remind me … So you were locked up for nine years. How much did society change or how many technological changes did you notice when you came out?
Griffin: I noticed a few. I was born in Portland but raised in Vancouver for many years. So just the landscape itself changed a lot. So I went from leaving in 2008, coming home in 2017. Technology, a lot of the things that people were using on their phones and things like that was different. A lot of the buildings and structure around me was different.
Miller: I just realized you basically skipped all of the Obama years.
Griffin: Yeah, I came home at the beginning of Trump. So January 5, 2017 was when I was getting released. And I actually said that to the judge. I think it was like 15 days, 16 days or something. This was the day I was getting released. They just overturned the case and I was saying yeah, I get to be out for at least 15 days of Obama’s last … the rest of his term.
Miller: Ajay, Lester’s nonprofit does a lot of work. We’ve been focusing on one piece of it, which is sort of the post-incarceration piece of it. But there’s another big piece, which is reaching young people, potentially at-risk young people, so they don’t ever get caught up in the criminal justice system. So they don’t go to prison or jail. It’s a huge question, but I’m curious, looking back on your life now, what kinds of supports you think would have been really meaningful, could have prevented you from ending up where you ended up?
Harnage: When I was coming up, we didn’t have resources such as like the teen centers. I mean, you had like the YMCA but that wasn’t something that was accessible to me as a youth with my upbringing. So it’s like when you have a teen center like this and it’s somewhere where you can go … And I just had this conversation with my youngest brother. They have somewhere to go to retreat from the streets. It’s like a safe haven. They have everything they need there. Especially with the with the teen center that Lester has, the first time that I went to the teen center when I came home, just seeing that set up, how they have the games and they even have the set up there to where us coming home, they can get us going with like our CDLs and it’s a lot of help there that’s going on.
Miller: Were you jealous to see what teens have now? Or just happy for them?
Harnage: I’m happy for them, but I feel like they’re spoiled a little bit. But I’m happy for ‘em. [Laughter]
Griffin: I love the kids over here.
Harnage: Yeah, I love it.
Miller: Lester, one thing that struck me is that … and this seems to be different than the kinds of youth programs or opportunities that Ajay is talking about. As I understand it, one of the activities that you provide for young people now is letting them take part in public comment or governmental meetings, like the new I-5 Bridge talks. Why do you do that?
Griffin: I’m big on … so the program is called Insight to Foresight. So, for me, it’s giving a young adult the understanding and the ownership of their community. When I was growing up, if I’d seen a new building or something new going on around me, that’s just what was happening.
Miller: You had no idea what was behind the creation of it, the power.
Griffin: Exactly. And I think as I got older, and especially into the organization world, once I started learning more things, like first of all, the whole city limits, that all shrunk to me. The leadership structure of everything and how the city is run. So everything shrunk to me and I had a better understanding of what was happening. And I feel like we do that with the youth. I put them on certain committees where they talk about, “OK, the city is taking this $25 million, they’re gonna put it up and down this corridor. What should we do with it and why?” I believe the kids should be in there. They may miss a lot of the stuff that’s being said, but you’ll be surprised what they catch as well.
Miller: They’re in a room where they can see the decision makers.
Griffin: They can see the decision maker. Yes, so Vancouver is having this comprehensive plan going on. So we had a chance to bring our students in and they had maps of the city. They were able to take these stickers, like where should jobs go? Where should a mall go? Where should … you see what I’m saying? And some of them were like, “Hey! We need a foundation everywhere.” So, it was pretty cool to see. But even when you talk about the Interstate bridge and what’s going to happen, a lot of people, adults aren’t even really understanding those changes from Oregon and Washington … at least on that side of the city to get from one side to the other and the things that’s gonna happen, what it’s gonna cost. So now, in Vancouver there’s kids running around that know what it’s gonna cost for this bridge. They have an idea of what it’s gonna look like because there’s these different ways of how they want to look.
So yeah, Insight to Foresight is just one of those things that when you start thinking like that, like, “Oh, this building is going up. Why? Who developed it? What is going on? What is it gonna be?” It gives you a chance to … I feel like your brain triggers in every department that way. So it’s kind of like a violence prevention thing, right? So now you’re thinking before and you’re thinking constantly.
Miller: Lester Griffin and Ajay Harnage, thanks so much to both of you. I really appreciate it.
Harnage / Griffin: Thanks for having us.
Miller: That is Lester Griffin and Ajay Harnage. Lester Griffin is the founder and the executive director of The Foundation. Ajay Harnage is a participant in that nonprofit’s adult reentry program.
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