The tune you hum along to from your favorite podcast may come from the Portland band Wonderly. The duo, made up of Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk, have recorded theme music for many podcasts, including “The Daily” from the New York Times. They have also recently released a new album called “Wolves.” Brunberg and Landsverk join us in studio for a performance and conversation.
Nov 23 - Wonderly at Trout Lake Hall, Trout Lake, WA
Dec 17 - Jim Brunberg with 45th Parallel Universe at Mississippi Studios, Portland, OR
Dec 20 - Low Bar Chorale “Snow Bar” at Revolution Hall, Portland, OR
March 6 - Wonderly and Jackshit at Mississippi Studios, Portland, OR
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. We end this week with the Portland musicians, Ben Landsverk and Jim Brunberg, from the band Wonderly. You might hear their names every day at the end of the New York Times podcast, “The Daily.” They did the theme song for that podcast and others, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg for this restless pair. As a duo and on their own, they’ve produced and recorded albums. They have managed musical venues, they played on a trillion albums. They’ve made podcasts, helped lead a political movement to call attention to the plight of independent musicians and venues, and a lot more. Wonderly is out with a new album this month. It’s called “Wolves.” I’m thrilled to have Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk back on the show. It’s good to see you guys.
Jim Brunberg: Great to see you, too.
Ben Landsverk: Thrilled to be here.
Miller: I want to start in just a second with one of the tracks from the new album. It’s called “Plaid Pantry.” I should say that you guys have your instruments, but we’re not going to be hearing you play the songs in your new album live, because they’re more heavily orchestrated and you guys just brought two instruments. But before we hear some of “Plaid Pantry,” an iconic Northwest brand, where did the song come from?
Landsverk: Where did it come from? [Laughter]
Brunberg: Why did we write this one? We were thinking more about this concept of wolves and feeding one wolf or the other. Sometimes we get sort of pegged as a basket of positivity and the name suggests sort of a kumbaya thing, but we have a very dark side.
Miller: Do you not like being known as positive people?
Brunberg: No. Well …
Landsverk: I think we like that.
Brunberg: We like it when people embrace the negative side, too. So this started off as a film, actually. We had this idea for this person who works at a Plaid Pantry, but they are also possibly plotting the overthrow of this Plaid Pantry. They’re maybe going to rob it. But then we talked to the Plaid Pantry people and understandably they said, no, thanks, we’d like you to not film that at a Plaid Pantry. But thankfully, Toody was willing to let us … Toody from …
Landsverk: Dead Moon.
Brunberg: Toody from Dead Moon was available and she owns a little bodega down in Clackamas. She let us film it there. But if we said the name of that bodega, people might not be as familiar with it.
So we just had this working class person who’s sort of struggling with a lot of the things that hourly wage employees are struggling with, who’s feeding both wolves. And it was kind of our kickoff for the record. I don’t even know why the song even came. The song serves the film, maybe.
Landsverk: I think that’s true. I also remember when we were writing it, like we had this chorus and then it was almost like out of nowhere … [singing] “Plaid Pantry!”
[Laughter]
Brunberg: If we tried to do that one live here, we would break the studio.
Landsverk: I think we might.
Miller: Well, then let’s hear what you already put in the canvas. This is the song “Plaid Pantry,” from the new album “Wolves.”
[”Plaid Pantry” by Wonderly playing]
Miller: I gotta say, I’ve been around other musicians and we’ve heard their songs, but the two of you seem more engaged and maybe curious listening to your own song than I’ve often seen.
[Laughter]
Landsverk: We are really into ourselves. We are constantly analyzing our work for things we can do differently.
Miller: So what were you listening for? I’m curious, Ben, what were you hearing that time?
Landsverk: Just arrangement things. You know, it’s funny, when you’re working on the thing, it’s kind of a mad dash of throwing ingredients in the pot, mixing them all together and then it kind of comes out. But, I mean, the reality of the song reveals itself upon repeated listening. And even for the artist, I think you may have a concept of what you put in there, but then sometimes you’ll hear it and you’ll be like, wow, there’s this thing that happened.
Miller: Sometimes whoops and sometimes not. Are there also times where you think, oh, I wish I had done that differently?
Brunberg: Yeah, sure. We are still in the honeymoon period with this record, although, I mean, it feels like forever ago. So I don’t think we go back and we listen that often. That’s why we’re sort of surprised.
Landsverk: I do! I love it. Yeah. I think it’s interesting to do that.
Brunberg: We are always trying to look forward. So when we go backwards, it’s like, oh, wow, we actually did that. We just unearthed the song that we recorded that we totally forgot about, that we recorded like two months ago.
Landsverk: That’s right.
Miller: You’re like a publicist nightmare. I mean …
Brunberg: I know. Yeah.
Landsverk: Absolutely.
Miller: I called you up yesterday to say what songs do you want to play? And you basically said, we want to look forward. That’s in the past. This album came out three weeks ago and you just want to talk about the future, not even about your new album.
Brunberg: Yeah, because that happened already. But I mean, that’s how it used to be, like artists used to be in the here and now, and music was something that brought people together in a live setting – before television, before radio even. And you were in the now or you were in the next week. There wasn’t any way to reference the oeuvre of work to say, oh, well, this happened and we should celebrate this. And I think it got a little bloated and boring. I think that the way that music can be the best cohesive force to bring people together, even if they don’t agree politically, the best way that we can be together on music, is to just say, “hey, next week, let’s all get together and jam or sing.”
Landsverk: Or sing. Yeah.
Miller: I take your point. But you’ve thrown under the bus recorded music just now.
Landsverk: [Laughter] We did not throw it. No, no, we still love it. I think it’s one of our favorite things to do. We love it.
Brunberg: Yeah, it is. We do love recorded music, but our own recorded music …
Miller: Being able to listen to a song over and over and over that you love and mean something to you – there’s nothing better, in some ways, than getting obsessed with the song, falling in love with the song, and hearing it over and over.
Landsverk: That is true.
Brunberg: True. But I think Ben and I are both so excited about what’s gonna happen next. So if that’s our white album, we’re not like looking at “Abbey Road” on the next album. We’re just like thinking what can we do that’s really different and satisfying for us, and for our families, and the people who come to hear us, and things like that.
Landsverk: Artistically, we’re always trying to evolve. And some of that involves looking back, but then it’s also about, how do we make it new for the future?
Brunberg: That said, I just listened to Emerson, Lake & Palmer “Brain Salad Surgery” for the nine millionth time.
[Laughter]
Miller: So let’s hear one of your earlier songs. You did bring instruments in – Ben, your viola; Jim, your guitar. Can we hear “Red-Winged Blackbird” from one of your earlier albums?
Brunberg: Yeah. Do you want us to do the whole thing or … ?
Miller: Is it like three or four minutes long?
Brunberg: Three-and-a-half.
Miller: I think we can handle that.
Brunberg: Well, this song actually looks back, this is a backward looking song. I think this is more of the sentimental side of us.
[”Red-Winged Blackbird” by Wonderly playing, performed live in studio]
Brunberg: How’s that?
Miller: That was lovely. That was “Red-Winged Blackbird” by Wonderly: Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk.
How do you work out your harmonies?
Landsverk: Gosh, we spend a lot of time doing them. But, I don’t know, we’re both natural harmonizers, I would say.
Brunberg: Well, we both grew up singing. We’re both choir geeks and we both love that, which is weird because I think we were both also punk rockers and, at least in my case, tried to sort of keep that hidden for a long time.
Landsverk: Right.
Miller: The sweet melodies and harmonies?
Brunberg: Yeah. But we found each other. And he is an amazing choral director and has many projects in which he works with people on their own harmonizing. It just kind of felt OK. And it was always fun to harmonize in past bands that we’ve been in, but we actually sit around and some days we don’t really do anything else, other than harmonize with a vacuum cleaner. Or we find a tone that’s emanating from, like, the blower motor on something and just start playing around with harmonies.
Landsverk: Exactly. I mean, we love singing together. We have so many of the same, like, influences – Beach Boys, [The] Kinks. And Jim is just … you’re my favorite person to harmonize with, my brother.
Brunberg: Ahh, man. You too.
Miller: Why?
Landsverk: The resonance of the voices.
Brunberg: Well, resonance of the voices. But I mean, it’s more about, again … I always talk about music as a socially cohesive force and it was really interesting listening to the folks from the “Dinky” podcast or the DINKS.
Miller: “Dinky.”
Brunberg: When there’s two people alone in a room, there’s a way to just focus on harmony and vibration that is unlike anything. It doesn’t have to be a kumbaya thing. Like I said before, it can be really dark, you can process through some stuff. And Ben is very open and [it’s] easy for us – we just get along that way. But also I think we both have this urge to get out there into the world and do that with other people
Landsverk: Absolutely. And we do that a lot.
Miller: I mentioned – and you guys laugh a little bit – the really surprising breadth of work that the two of you have done. When you add it all together, you’ve just done a little bit of everything in the music scene that I can imagine. Do you get bored easily? I mean, do you feel restless?
Landsverk: I think, in some ways, always as an artist you have to be in that kind of place of discomfort and restlessness, and looking for the next thing to do. So I would say, as a baseline kind of, yeah, but I also don’t feel like I’m ever bored. Bored is not the right word.
Brunberg: Bored is not the right word, just fascinated. Like, I mean, if we could make a rap album, we would, if we could do so without being like culturally misappropriating motifs and things like that. Because we’re fascinated by all music. We could do an album of Gregorian chants. I’m working on a German opera right now and Ben’s gonna contribute a track. It’s just a big world. Music is a big deep world.
[Speaking to Dave Miller] You’re a viola player, I’ve learned.
Miller: Yeah.
Brunberg: I learned Dave Miller plays the viola and I tried to get him to play today, but you wouldn’t do it. And you know how deep it is – each instrument is this world of exploration. It’s just an incredible world. And if more people made music, I think we’d all get along better.
Landsverk: I do too.
Miller: What do you see as the through line that cuts through the different genres of music that you both play, and the different versions of even, say, supporting music? What’s cohesive about it?
Brunberg: A willingness and eagerness to share ideas. I think music is a nonstop TED Talk/Chautauqua meeting ground. It’s a place where people can put their ideas together. So when Van Dyke Parks met Brian Wilson and they started working together, the world exploded. When Paul and John of The Beatles met, when Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson worked together, they created this thing that neither of them would [do alone]. So the thread. If people, just like in any world, can really listen to each other’s ideas and give those ideas a chance to blossom … And I think this is true in politics too, like Marie Gluesenkamp Perez working with the Oregon delegation to try to come up with solutions, ways that the Democrats can be more appealing next time around. Nobody’s out there on their own.
Landsverk: No, no. It’s all about collaboration. It’s never about any singular genius. The best things that we do, I think we do it together.
Brunberg: Yeah, nobody goes into a room and just kind of makes anything amazing happen. Well, they do, but it’s even made better if they can be open to collaboration.
Miller: I’m hoping we can hear another song. Your last album was a really diverse array of covers – Paul Simon, Billie Eilish, Bruce Springsteen, Thelonious Monk and David Bowie, among others. Can we hear “Bowie’s Life on Mars”?
Landsverk: Absolutely.
Brunberg: Let’s try it. This one has a lot of chords, so make sure we get them all right.
Landsverk: Yeah.
Brunberg: We’re doing this one for you because you’re a viola player. This one features some mighty fancy viola playing by Ben.
Landsverk: Aw, thank you.
[”David Bowie’s Life on Mars” by Wonderly playing, performed live in studio]
Miller: That’s “David Bowie’s Life on Mars,” played by the folks from Wonderly: Ben Landsverk and Jim Brunberg.
Ben, there are lots of people listening who probably have sung with you. That’s probably true with the Low Bar Chorale.
Brunberg: That’s probably true.
Miller: But for folks who haven’t done that or haven’t heard of it, what is it?
Landsverk: So it’s a massive group singing along with parts. So imagine, kind of like a rock concert, kind of like a choir rehearsal, kind of like a place you go to have a glass of wine or drink beer. It’s a very, very open, inclusive and inviting atmosphere. It’s open to absolutely everybody.
Brunberg: And it’s a party
Landsverk: And it’s a party. Thank you.
Brunberg: I just go for the party, man!
Landsverk: Go for the party … yeah, I love it. We meet twice a month, once at Show Bar at Revolution Hall and once at Mississippi Studios. Usually we have anywhere between 100 people singing and we’ve had up to, I think, 2,500 people singing when we did a big thing in Pioneer Square a few years ago. But, yeah, that’s what it is. Some people might call it an audience choir type of thing. We have a live band of craft musicians from all over the Pacific Northwest and beyond. Jim is one of them, who collaborates with us often. And basically, the audience becomes the lead singer.
Miller: What happens when someone comes up to you and says, “I can’t sing.”
Landsverk: I tell him you are full of …
Brunberg: … BS!
Landsverk: BS, exactly. No, it makes me laugh because most people can sing. I would say 99% of people can sing. Actual tone deafness – inability to figure out pitch – is a very, very small percentage of the population actually has that. I think it’s an African adage: if you can laugh, you can sing. It’s true. It’s absolutely true. People come and they’re like, “I’m not a singer. I can’t do this.” They get next to somebody who maybe is just a level higher than them, as far as where they are in their musical journey. And suddenly if you’re surrounded by like 30 people who are singing the same part and your voices are all meshing together, then they get their minds changed very quickly.
Miller: Let’s listen to part of what this can sound like. I hadn’t realized there was a Mars theme here. But “Run Away to Mars” by the band TALK. This was recorded in January of last year, January of 2023 at Portland’s Revolution Hall.
[”Run Away to Mars” by Low Bar Chorale playing, recorded at Revolution Hall in 2023]
Brunberg: Where did you find that?
Miller: This is on the website.
Landsverk: It’s on our website. We made a video of that.
Miller: I didn’t go that far.
Landsverk: It’s out there, yeah.
Miller: Ben, as a professional musician, as somebody who we were talking about before about a lifetime of harmonizing and melody making. But this is an audience of people who, maybe some of them have that background, some of them don’t, but what’s it like to feel that music coming back at you?
Landsverk: It is the most amazing feeling in the world. I can’t even tell you. I’ve directed choirs for about 25 years of my life. Ever since I was in college, I’ve been a choral director. And there’s something about having pros, having people who are super seasoned is one thing and that’s an amazing sound. But having people who are just there to do it for fun, and to emote, and to be with their friends, the sound that they produce is endlessly fascinating to me. And it’s my job, as the director of it, to kind of chorale it, to arrange it. So I’m setting people up to win, with the three parts. So it’s something that I can teach in about maybe half an hour, 45 minutes or something. And then when I get that part right and when there’s a critical mass of people there, it’s just like nothing else. It’s true, not just for me, but for all the band members who stand on stage – they all say that that’s also one of the most amazing experiences that they get to have as a musician.
Miller: Jim, it’s interesting hearing Ben talk about this because it reminds me that one of the themes in our conversation so far is the power of music as a sort of cohesive social force and being together, being in person.
Brunberg: You noticed the double entente with the corral/chorale …
Miller: I did. Do you have a particular memory of a post-pandemic music making together, when we could be back together instead of … I mean, because like Low Bar Chorale, where there were some virtual get togethers, you did what you could. But now, we can be back together. Was there any one show or moment that stands out to you when you were back in person?
Brunberg: Yeah, I wasn’t involved in this, but I attended it – when Devo came and played Revolution Hall for their 50th anniversary. It was the kind of show that people who just love … A bunch of geeks, and weirdos, and rock and roll, new wave and punk people finally getting to go out. I think that was about a year-and-a-half ago. So it was well after the pandemic. But people, especially in our demographic, who aren’t kids anymore, who had been a little bit cautious, especially since Oregon was closed for like 18 months, people were just coming out and feeling the joy and the lights. They were packed in and I felt joy, to the point where I just got really emotional and had to step out into the hallway for a little while. It was so great to see people. And again, it wasn’t me making music, it was me watching other people enjoy music.
Miller: Ben, what about you?
Landsverk: As far as coming back from the pandemic?
Miller: Yeah.
Landsverk: Man, I mean … God, I’m trying to think. I think some of the most amazing ones were actually Low Bar Chorales that we would hold in people’s backyards, right before we were able to really come back into the venues.
Brunberg: Yeah.
Landsverk: People were so happy to be back together. They’d just spent at least a year, if not more, of isolation singing along to me on Facebook and that kind of thing, or taking a video of themselves, sending it in, doing that. When they actually got together, I mean, it was just an absolutely amazing thing.
Miller: I didn’t ask you this in advance, but you’re professionals, you can do this. Can you take us out with some kind of instrumental? The theme being the weekend is almost here. It might rain a little bit, but the weekend is coming. [Laughter & Singing] Ideally, instrumental though, so I can say some show business? [Laughter]
Brunberg: Darn it, Dave!
Landsverk: He was just writing a song!
Miller: [Laughter] Yeah, that was a good beginning though. Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk, you guys are a trip. Thank you very much.
Landsverk: Thank you.
Miller: That’s Ben Landsverk and Jim Brunberg from the band Wonderly. Their new album is called “Wolves.”
[Instrumental music playing]
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