Should we be taking our dogs everywhere we go? A Portland writer shares her thoughts

From grocery stores to breweries, we are taking our pet dogs to more and more places. But do our furry companions actually enjoy being dragged alongside our own adventures to cafes and bookstores? Tove Danovich is a Portland-based writer and author of “Under the Henfluence.” She wrote a recent opinion piece arguing that maybe we should leave our dogs at home more often. She joins us to share more on her reasoning and the effects taking a dog to public spaces can have not only on our dogs, but the world around them.

Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.

Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. “We take our dogs everywhere. Maybe we shouldn’t.” That was a headline from a recent essay published in The Washington Post. It was by the Portland area writer Tove Danovich. She’s quick to point out that she is a dog owner herself. But even she thinks people should leave their dogs at home more often for the sake of their fellow humans, for wildlife, and even sometimes for the dogs themselves.

We would love to get your thoughts on this. If you’re a dog owner, how do you decide when and where to bring your dogs? What do you get out of those trips? What do you think your dog gets out of them? If you are frustrated with your run-ins with dogs these days, at stores or restaurants or trails or parks, what have you experienced? What stories do you have to tell?

Tove Danovich joins us now. It’s great to have you back on the show.

Tove Danovich: Yeah, so nice to be here again. First talking about chickens. Now, dogs.

Miller: Exactly. I want to start with two voicemails that came in from very different points of view. Two Portlanders we’re going to hear. We’ll hear Ed first, and then Jason.

Ed [voicemail]: My dog is always with me. As often as I can, the dog goes with me. And the reason is because, why do I have a dog? To leave at home with the doors locked all alone or to leave at home to watch the house while I’m not there? Those are both good reasons, but I like the idea of having my dog with me, experiencing life with me, experiencing my dog’s life with him. I love to travel with my dog. I love to keep my dog with me. I try to go everywhere the dog can go. I gave up bike riding and motorcycles because I can’t bring my dog with me.

Jason [voicemail]: As someone who works outside and in parks, it’s incredibly frustrating to see the damage that dogs do, as well as constantly stepping in dog [bleep]. And then to come into contact with entitled dog owners who think they have the right to do so and also leave their dog [bleep] bags everywhere. Just kind of discouraging, and makes me hate dogs and dog owners alike.

Miller: So very, very different takes there. What prompted you to write this piece in The Washington Post?

Danovich: I was taking a walk at a park in Clackamas County. It’s one of the only parks that does not actually allow even leashed dogs in the area. I was having a lovely time in nature, seeing all this wildlife, deers, rabbits. And all of a sudden there’s a man walking his dog, who was on a leash, a lovely little dog. And I’m like, this dog isn’t supposed to be here in this place. There are very prominent signs all around talking about not just that they don’t allow dogs, but why they don’t allow dogs. Because clearly, I could tell even walking in this had been a problem for them previously. And I really noticed, I had been having this lovely nature walk, and as soon as the dog was near me on the trail, I stopped seeing any wildlife at all.

So I really wanted to write about the fact that dogs, while wonderful, I have two of my own, they really don’t belong everywhere. And they can have a pretty major impact on wild places. And so being very conscientious about where we take them, why we’re bringing them with us, I think is something that is important and maybe has been lost in the shuffle of dogs being part of our families.

Miller: What did you experience [and] what did you see, in terms of wildlife before the dogs showed up?

Danovich: A ton of bird sounds and birds. I saw a deer on the trail right in front of me. There was a rabbit that I saw too. And I was actually looking at the rabbit when the dog came up. The rabbit kind of froze and then bolted as soon as the dog was within the rabbit’s view, which happened before me. So I think you can really clearly see the impacts.

And there are a ton of studies that bear this out. So it’s not just my one opinion from this one walk that I took. There was a study in France that even looked at two hikers walking and they had about a 3.7 hectare impact on wildlife. And when they brought their dogs, that impact grew to about 7 hectares. So just the width of response that it calls up in wild animals, who can become habituated to humans, but really don’t with dogs because dogs are always a predator.

Miller: It’s fascinating because … I mean, I love humans. Some of my favorite people are humans. But I do think of us as, broadly, a more destructive force in the world than dogs. But I guess rabbits don’t see the relative threats of dogs and humans in the same way?

Danovich: Oh yeah, humans have a real impact on wildlife, certainly through development or choices that lead to climate change. As a habitat-disturbing entity, humans are definitely doing more than dogs.

Miller: As squirrel chasers, we’re not as bad?

Danovich: Exactly. If I’m a squirrel and I live in a neighborhood, I’m pretty sure humans aren’t going to bother me. But that dog is going to go after me in a second.

Miller: Let’s take some calls. Jessie has called in. Jessie, go ahead.

Jessie [caller]: Hey, how are you doing?

Miller: Doing fine. What’s your experience with dogs?

Jessie [caller]: Well, I work in grocery, and this happens on a basically daily basis. People bring their dogs into the grocery store, and we don’t tell them to get rid of them or anything. But these dogs grab packages off of shelves, they puncture packages a lot, and as somebody that works in the store, we have to clean up after them quite a bit. Also their leashes, when they get excited I’ve noticed, can get tangled in other people’s carts. They’ve knocked over children. Just kind of disruptive to the shopping experience for the people that are there just to get their groceries.

Miller: Now, you said they come in with their dogs. You don’t ask them anything about it. So, is the store policy just that people can bring whatever dog they want for whatever reason?

Jessie [caller]: No, the store policy is that people are allowed to bring their dogs if they’re service dogs. But we’ve gotten so much negative feedback from asking people if their dog is a service animal or not. People get very offended. And so the brass, the top people in the store, just kind of roll over, letting them have carte blanche.

Miller: Jessie, thanks very much for that call.

Scott has called in from Hillsdale. Scott, go ahead.

Scott [caller]: I have a child who is an anxious kid, and particularly triggered by dogs. And so what we find is when we run into dogs in unexpected places like stores, shops, Home Depot, events, outside. And we would have to leave, because he was struggling with that. And I just wanted dog owners to know that it’s not just necessarily that your dog is angry or violent or anything. But just the presence causes anxiety for some people.

Miller: Scott, thanks very much for that call. Let’s take one more call now.

Homa Pierce has called in. Homa, go ahead.

Homa [caller]: Hi, Dave. Thanks for letting me be on. I have to let you know that I have two elderly dogs that are very well trained and stay close by me. When we’re out in the park, I really feel that when we have our dogs with us, it’s much more of an emotional attachment than people might even know. Bringing my two elder dogs with me wherever I go, I just feel really cognizant of the time that I have left with them. I think, having a walk in a park, where possibly it’s not an area where it’s normal for dogs to walk, is a little bit out of line. But I think that as long as you …

Miller: Having a little bit of a hard time hearing you but I think we got your point. The first point that she made, Tova, I want to get your thoughts on. That my dogs are old. I’m not sure how much more time I’m going to have with them. And she says, I don’t think people necessarily recognize the emotional aspect of this for dog lovers. How do you reckon with that when you’re talking more broadly about ecosystems?

Danovich: I mentioned in the article too, that I certainly feel very attached to my dogs. I think increasingly and again, numbers and statistics bear out, that we consider dogs part of our family. And that’s why one of the lines I wanted to put in the article is sometimes you leave your family at home too. Sometimes your kid goes with the babysitter. Sometimes you do something without your significant other because it’s more fulfilling for that particular experience. And maybe that person you’re leaving at home doesn’t want to be there.

So I think that’s one of the issues that I see, more so. With this, we’re so used to bringing our dogs everywhere. We don’t really think about it too much. Often, it can certainly be more convenient. Like you’re going from one errand to another, you’re going to be gone for a really long time. It’s just easier to have your dog in the car and then bring them everywhere. With the heat, maybe you can’t leave them in the car, so you have to bring them inside.

I understand all the logistics behind that. However, not all dogs want to go with you to these places. Dogs sleep for just a huge amount of the day, a lot more than humans do. So being curled up at home in their bed, for a lot of dogs, is a much better option.

Miller: You mentioned a story about going to the Grand Canyon, I guess, when you had one dog. Can you tell us that story?

Danovich: I brought my dog Mesa from New York City out here to the West Coast. We did a little road trip and we just did the rim of the Grand Canyon. It’s a national park. So dogs are not allowed off the paved areas. So I had my dog with me. I brought her along the rim and it was nice, in a way. But I was so anxious the whole time because I’m enjoying this beautiful view but there’s also a really steep drop-off. And I had my dog on leash. She’s pretty easy to control, but I’m still like, I really hope she doesn’t run to that edge. And earlier in the trip, we had gone to a lovely dog park in Santa Fe. And both of us had a better time at the dog park than I did with her at the Grand Canyon.

Miller: Jacqueline has called in from Portland. Jacqueline, go ahead.

Jacqueline [caller]: I just wanted to say I grew up with dogs. We love dogs. My parents have two dogs overseas that they brought from the States. But one of the things that I really struggle with is the awareness of the fact that not everybody loves dogs, even if they have been exposed. And also this whole practice of not leashing. That’s more of the issue for me. I go for runs in Gladstone, where I live. And I don’t know if it’s more the confidence of the individual who’s decided they think their dog is appropriate to be off leash. But I’ve had dogs chase me, run up to me.

That’s when I start to get this ill-will towards dog owners. It’s kind of like well-behaved children. [They] are wonderful, and we love them no matter what. And same with dogs. So I think my thing is that it creates anxiety for everybody, including the dog owner. And it does put the dog at risk, especially without a leash, too, because I feel like that’s one of the issues that’s kind of been overrun by dog owners. And no disrespect because I love my parents and I love their dogs.

Miller: Jacqueline, have you ever said anything to a dog owner whose dog is not on a leash?

Jacqueline [caller]: Well one time I did. It was a giant German Shepherd, and I was running along that path by the Willamette near Gladstone. I was running with my earbuds in and the dog’s headed right towards me. And I screamed, “Get your dog away from me,” because I didn’t know how it was going to react to a person running at it. And he just kind of laughed at me. And was like, “oh well.” That was kind of the response I got. I’ve also told my parents to leash these dogs. My parents have leashed their dogs when I’ve told them. So I’ve definitely given the feedback. But I feel like in the state of the world, the way it is, people feel that you’re being sensitive and imposing when really it’s more of a request for safety.

Miller: Jacqueline, thanks very much.

Christine has called in from Camas, Washington. Christine, what’s your experience?

Christine [caller]: Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. So I’m probably gonna echo a lot of the other comments. I have had dogs all my life and had a family dog as a kid. I’m now a dog owner. I have two dogs. I love them dearly. They’re great companions. But I take them on a daily walk and I take them to off-leash dog parks once in a while. They have a pretty comfortable space here at home. And so I don’t take them to stores. I don’t take them to Home Depot. I don’t take them to restaurants, certainly. And I’m of the belief that that’s where they belong. They don’t belong where we eat. They don’t belong where I’m shopping for food.

And primarily, like the previous caller said, I think sometimes people are just being a little bit self-centered when they take their dogs everywhere. Because, for example, when my daughter was a toddler, she was really afraid of dogs, all dogs. And we had an experience where we went into a Home Depot, and walked down the main aisle and then we were gonna turn left down a side aisle, and there was a woman with a very large dog. He was on a leash, but it was a long leash, and it was kind of tied to her belt, and she was looking at something up on the shelf, not really paying attention. And he just bounded towards my daughter. Again, I’m sure it was a very friendly dog, but she was just absolutely terrified. So that’s part of it. We just need to be sensitive to others. And like the previous caller said, not everybody feels the same way about dogs that we do.

I’m also a runner. I’ve been running down a trail where, in my case, the dog was actually leashed. But it was a pretty wide trail. It was kind of a long leash. The person was with a friend. They were chatting. They weren’t paying attention, and it was getting on dusk. I didn’t even see that the dog was attached by a leash until I was right up on it. And I almost tripped over the leash. That would have been unfortunate. So again, yes, love your dogs. They’re great companions. They’re comfortable at home. They may not wanna go everywhere with us anyway and so maybe just, you know, leave your dog home a little more often.

Miller: Christine, thanks very much for that call. Tove, it strikes me that a lot of people who’ve just called in are like you – dog lovers, some of them dog owners. Do you think The Washington Post would have run your essay if they could have as a subhead, as the small-scale headline: “I’m a dog owner myself and I think that we do this too much.” Do you think they would have run it if you hadn’t been able to say that?

Danovich: Oh, I think they would have probably liked it even more. Just think of the controversy.

Miller: Oh, because you would have been an “angry cat lady”?

Danovich: Yeah, exactly. But a lot of them love dogs too. And I do think it’s funny how we all have to have that caveat of, I’m not a complete monster, dogs are good dogs.

Miller: That was my next question. What do you think is behind the preface?

Danovich: I think it is part of that. And I think, on a deeper level, what a lot of these comments and my article really speak to is that dogs are good dogs. It’s the owners who need to do a better job and be more considerate, both to the dogs needs and the needs of people around them. You know, dogs are going to do what dogs are going to do. Sometimes that’s loving. Sometimes that’s over exuberant toward other people. And it’s on us as the caretakers of these dogs, to know our dogs’ personalities, to know when they might affect other people, and when they’re happier if we don’t do certain activities with them.

Miller: I’m curious about the point that a couple of folks have made, that dogs may not want to go to these places. We got a bunch of voicemails from people over the last couple of days saying essentially, “My dog loves going places with me.” So how do you deal with those two potentially opposing ideas; that dogs may be happier staying at home, with people saying, “No, no, I know my dog loves to be with me and loves to go to Safeway with me”?

Danovich: It’s really difficult. I think as close as we feel to dogs, they are another species. They don’t always love the things that we love. One of the things I pointed out about the Grand Canyon is that dogs don’t really love views. A lot of people are taking their dogs on these beautiful hikes because it’s a place that we want to go. It’s very scenic. But a dog experiences most of the world through their nose. And so for a lot of dogs going on a sniff walk – and Alexandra Horowitz, whose work on dogs, I just love. I think she’s super smart. She talks a lot about this. Taking the dog around the neighborhood and letting them lead the way, just with their nose, can be as or more stimulating than a really, really long walk.

Miller: Carly has called in. Carly, go ahead. Carly, can you hear me?

All right, let’s try Dave in Beaverton.

Dave [caller]: Yes, hello, Dave. Your guest makes a really good point about the essence of this issue and it’s really the pet owner’s behavior. And in my opinion, it boils down to the fact that, much as with their children, many pet owners feel that their pets can do no wrong. And they’re irrational about their great qualities that, maybe, not everyone sees or could appreciate. Unless and until people start getting a little more objective about the quality of their pets and take some responsibility, these problems are going to persist.

Miller: What would an objective view of someone’s pet look like? These are the honest limitations of my cat. These are the failings of my dog?

Dave [caller]: Well, here’s an example. Everybody says, “Oh, my dog’s friendly.” Well maybe it’s friendly to people it knows. But maybe that dog doesn’t know someone and they feel threatened or annoyed for some reason. And this blanket statement of them being friendly does not necessarily hold up to critical examination.

Miller: Dave, thanks very much. And also, as we heard earlier, it doesn’t matter if you think your dog is friendly, if people don’t experience the dog’s actions as friendly.

So Tove, what do you want the dog lovers, dog owners listening right now, who may be planning to go after this radio show … they’re gonna go to a park with their dog … in the car, right now, on their lap. What do you want folks to keep in mind before they set out somewhere with their dog?

Danovich: On a basic level, bring your dogs places where the dog is wanted and follow the rules of that place. So if your dog is not a service dog, sure, you can get away with bringing them to a place where it is technically illegal to bring your dog? Yes, but don’t do that. Don’t make this experience bad for other people. If you go to a place where the dog has to be on a short leash, keep your dog on a short leash. There are a lot of reasons that retractable leashes aren’t great to use. And if dogs aren’t allowed at all, we live in the Pacific Northwest, there’s so many beautiful places where you can take your dog.

Miller: OK, so that’s the legal low-hanging fruit. Just literally follow the law or follow the rules. You have 40 seconds for this – what about places where they are allowed? Then what do you want people to consider?

Danovich: On the most basic level, I would love it if people really thought about [whether] their dogs want to be there. I think that is maybe easier for a lot of owners sometimes than being considerate of other people that they don’t know. If you go to a hot, crowded street fair, is your dog really going to have a good time there on this hot pavement where there’s no water or anything for them to do?

Miller: Are you gonna have a good time?

Danovich: Yeah, are you gonna have a good time? Like, is this an outing where you and your dog are really going to bond together or is this a place where your dog can just have a little break and kind of decompress at home.

Miller: Tove, thanks very much.

Danovich: Thank you.

Miller: Tove Danovich is a Portland area writer, the author of “Under the Henfluence: Inside the World of Backyard Chickens and the People Who Love Them.” She wrote a recent op-ed in The Washington Post, arguing that folks should think twice, more often than they do about whether or not they’re going to bring their dog with them on outings.

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