Oregon’s 5th Congressional District has received national attention as a highly competitive race, with the winner of the May primary challenging Republican incumbent Lori Chavez-DeRemer in November. Jamie McLeod-Skinner is an attorney and engineer. Janelle Bynum is a small business owner and the Democratic state representative of District 39 which includes Happy Valley and North Clackamas. They join us for a debate.
Note: This transcript was computer generated and edited by a volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. Republicans flipped Oregon’s 5th Congressional District two years ago when former Happy Valley mayor Lori Chavez-DeRemer won the seat long held by Democrat Kurt Schrader. As we head into the 2024 election, Republicans and Democrats see this seat, which stretches from a sliver of Multnomah County all the way down to Deschutes County, as one of the few truly competitive races that could decide the balance of power in the US House. Chavez-DeRemer will once again be the Republican nominee. Two prominent Democrats are vying for the chance to take her on in November.
Janelle Bynum is a four-term Democratic state representative from Happy Valley. She owns four McDonald’s franchises in the Portland area. Jamie McLeod-Skinner is a lawyer and engineer who was previously interim city manager for Talent outside of Ashland – that was after the Alameda Fire. She’s also served in other public service and elected boards. This is her third time running for Congress. She also ran for Oregon Secretary of State. Welcome to both of you.
Janelle Bynum / Jamie McLeod-Skinner: Thank you so much.
Miller: We did a kind of coin flip of crumpled up pieces of paper just seconds ago, and it worked. It was a good randomizer and Janelle Bynum, you get the first crack at the first question.
Congressional approval is at record lows. It can barely pass a budget. There have been some interesting bipartisan – and unusually so – efforts recently, just because of the particular makeup of the current Congress. But in general, this is a body that’s become synonymous with gridlock and dysfunction. Why join that club? Why try so hard to join that club?
Bynum: Well, I would say elections matter. I mean, we see that both at our state and local level. And what people have told me is that they love their congressperson for the most part, but they don’t love Congress. And I think the people that we send to Washington DC should be of a higher caliber, and that’s what I think this election is about.
So, it should be people with experience, lived experience as well as professional experience with the issues that Oregonians care about the most. So whether it’s student debt or affordability of housing, availability of housing, natural resource management – those are the things that Oregonians want elevated. And most of all, when it comes to issues like abortion and women’s rights, they want those things front and center, because we know that the nation wants us to move, especially in light of Roe being overturned. They know they want us front and center on those issues and I’ve been doing that in the legislature and will continue to do that in Congress.
Miller: Jamie McLeod-Skinner – Why try so hard to go to this body where you’ll be traveling 3,000 miles back and forth all the time, fundraising all the time, and then very little regularly gets done in terms of actual lawmaking?
McLeod-Skinner: Well, Oregonians are hurting right now, our planet’s in crisis and also our fundamental rights are at stake. And so I think, to your question, it’s fair. People talk about that and laugh at how it is such a dysfunctional body. But then, it speaks to really needing people who have the experience on the ground, understand the issues, and are willing to show up and address the issues that folks are facing. And that’s the experience I bring.
Also, being able to bridge the urban-rural divide is so key. It’s the political divide and the urban-rural divide. And that’s just the work I’ve done throughout Oregon, in Central Oregon, but also in places where Democrats don’t typically show up. We need to make sure that we’re showing up and addressing the issues that families are facing.
On working family issues, affordable housing, health care, childcare, elder care, social security – all of those things are stressors that people are feeling. Those kitchen table issues as well as the environmental crisis, wildfire, drought, heat domes. We’re facing all of that here in Oregon. And then our fundamental rights – making sure that we have access to abortion, contraception, IVF, voting rights, right to marry, as well as the right to protect rape victims. And all these safety issues are really front and center for Oregonians right now.
Miller: Some members of Oregon’s congressional delegation over the decades have carved out issues for themselves over the course of their careers. Ron Wyden is maybe most well known for his work on surveillance in recent years. Peter DeFazio focused a lot on transportation. Earl Blumenauer spent a lot of years working on agriculture and cannabis.
Jamie McLeod-Skinner, first. What issue would you most want to be known for? You both just mentioned a lot of issues and I do want to dig more into those, and the differences that you see between the two of your positions, to the extent that there are differences. There’s a lot of similarities as well. You’re both Democrats, but what particular issue would you want to be known for, and to focus your time on?
McLeod-Skinner: Addressing the challenges that everyday Oregonians are facing. You know, I come from a working class family. The vast majority of folks throughout the district are really struggling with those basic affordability, cost of living issues. Being a small business owner, connecting with people, getting support I do, from folks in working families and seniors and students and veterans. All of those everyday issues that Oregonians are facing are really key.
One of the key things that’s a distinguishing factor in this race – I don’t take corporate PAC money, because I believe in accountability to voters and to everyday Oregonians. That’s why I’ve gotten the support I have from folks across the district and in the district. But another big thing, of course, is the environmental challenge we’re facing. I appreciate your comment of saying focus on one thing, but you gotta be able to walk and chew gum in Congress. And so addressing our environmental challenges, both the big picture issues as well as the response issues, helping people prepare and become resilient, and providing the resources to help Oregonians address the climate crisis are all really big issues.
Miller: Janelle Bynum, if, in the future you were a member of Congress, and a member of the public who didn’t really focus that much on politics knew one thing about you, if you were known for focusing on an issue, what would you want that to be?
Bynum: Well, many people know me as a mother. I’m a mom of four, and I lead with that lens. For instance, I was just having a conversation last night with my 15-year-old daughter who plays flag football. And she said, “You know, mom, sometimes I forget. I remember that you’re mom, but I forget that you’re a person that’s been leading our state and making big policies that really change our lives.” So the example she was talking about was, before every Oregon student football game or any kind of athletic competition, they read a set of rules, and those were rules that I wrote. So for me, it’s about, how do I create a better tomorrow for our youth?
Many people say that they want their leaders to be someone who cares about the next generation doing better than what we have. So where I’ve carved out a space is in the space of innovation. I wrote, with my colleagues, the CHIPS Act [Creating Helpful Incentives to Produce Semiconductors] Oregon, which was about $300 million in state investment. But more importantly, it has generated what is expected to be $43 billion of economic investment and 6,000 jobs. That’s innovation and being positive about the future and making sure that our young people have something to look forward to and come home to in Oregon. That’s why I’ve carved out my space by really looking at our youth and the future, and making sure that Oregon is a brighter place for them.
Miller: What do you see as the most significant policy differences between yourself and Jamie McLeod-Skinner?
Bynum: Well, there’s a large gulf in the level of experience and the depth of experience…
Miller: We can talk about experience, and I want to. But I want to focus, first, on what you both see – Janelle Bynum, first – as policy differences where you think that you would push for policies that are significantly different from what Jamie Mcleod-Skinner would push for if she were elected.
Bynum: Well, as I mentioned before, it’s really important to me – I’ve served on the Small Business and Economic Development Committee, most recently as the chair. And what I understood just from going around the state and talking with constituents, is that economic justice is social justice, and when people have the ability to pay their bills, to access housing, to have good solid health care, when they have economic justice, when they have solid housing and jobs and a future to look forward to, that’s the lens that I bring. And it’s not the first course of action is investing in a broad swath of social programs. It’s social programs and economic development. It’s making sure that communities are safe, it’s making sure that we spend our first dollars on education. That’s the route that I take, and I think that is the great equalizer. Families in Bend want economic prowess and prosperity, just like families in Milwaukee.
Miller: Do I hear you correctly, or understand what you’re saying, that you think you have more of an emphasis on economic development and business development than Jamie McLeod-Skinner? Is that a distinction you’re making here?
Bynum: I would say so.
Miller: OK, be brief, and then I’m going to go back to Jamie.
Bynum: Let me put a pin on that. The most important thing is that people have the resources that they need, on their terms. It’s why I’m such an advocate for workers’ rights and making sure that they have advocacy, that they can put forth their own ideas and they’re not in the vulnerable position.
Miller: OK. Jamie McLeod-Skinner, your turn, broadly, to give listeners a sense for where you see meaningful policy differences, and if you also want to respond to this issue of economic development and opportunities for families.
McLeod-Skinner: Let me first respond to the distinction…as a small business owner, I’m the only small business owner in this race. One of the issues that I hear a lot from small business owners is how they’re going to get access to childcare and health care. I mean, the incubator system, The Haven [Coworking] in Bend, the owners there are supporting me because it’s about helping small businesses thrive.
The other thing is, I served eight years on a city council in Silicon Valley – actually headquarters of Intel – and worked with the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, which helped to create that system, the greatest economic engine in the world, really. And the folks who founded Silicon Valley really focused, not just on technology, but on education, on affordable housing, on transportation, on health care. And these are all issues that I put front and center. So I actually challenge that perspective, because to actually create the environment, you have to make sure there’s affordable housing.
For education, I’ve actually proposed a civilian GI bill that would help folks go to school debt free, with also investments in trades and apprenticeship. But getting those skill sets are really key. So that on the ground experience in economic development is something I’ve worked on and it counters…you can’t just go high up, you gotta provide that infrastructure for things to develop, for your economy to develop.
So the things I see are really some of the top contrast pieces are… first, it starts with the philosophy of not taking corporate PAC money. The money you take shapes your perspective and who you serve. I’m really proud that I’ve strongly outraised in Oregon. I’ve got strong support from folks on the ground, but I don’t take corporate PAC money, because that accountability to everyday Oregonians is important to me.
Another one is on the environment. I serve on the Oregon Watershed Enhancement Board. My law degree focuses on natural resource law and Indian law. I’ve done a lot of work, have a lot of leadership in making sure we’re addressing not just the climate crisis, but addressing it in places across the urban-rural divide, working with folks to address these issues and help safeguard our resources.
Miller: But what are you seeing, what are you articulating as a difference in terms of policy when it comes to environmental issues?
McLeod-Skinner: Sure. So, investments in a renewable energy grid, investments in the technology we’ll need. Also, the response piece, on making sure that Oregonians get the resources we’ll need when there is a crisis. I can go into details on reauthorization of staff, or bills, that kind of thing. But the biggest thing I think is a huge distinction in this race is a commitment to protecting rape victims. And what we’ve seen is, my colleague/opponent in the race was the lone legislator to stand up and vote against extending protection for rape victims, survivors of sexual assault, to seven years in the legislature. Republicans and Democrats agreed we need these protections in place.
She also, as a committee chair, stood in the way of legislation going forward…
Bynum: …I’m gonna have to interrupt…
Miller: I’m going to give you a chance to respond, in 10 seconds.
Bynum: She’s stretching the truth. I still think that’s not a good thing to do.
McLeod-Skinner: I think that in Congress, we will see things like protecting Indigenous murder and missing, missing…
Bynum: She can’t get it out because it is not true.
McLeod-Skinner: So, these are the things we have to deal with, in addition to addressing women’s rights around reproduction…
Miller: Janelle Bynum, I do wanna give you a chance to respond to two points here. You can choose the order, but I do want to hear about your decision to accept corporate PAC money. I think you maybe want to respond first to the questions of options for victims of rape.
Bynum: Sure. On the corporate PAC money, I think I’ve gotten one corporate contribution, but 80% of my funds have come from right here in Oregon. So it’s Oregonians who are powering this campaign, and it’s a grassroots effort. I think my opponent is upset that she hasn’t been able to make the traction that I’ve been able to make, given that I started from a position way behind her. I think that wraps up the corporate PAC question.
What I think is important, what, to me, is a question of how people access justice, I would say that, first, I’m glad that she brought it up because it tells a story about how I fight for my constituents regardless of how it affects me politically. So, number one, I did vote yes on the bill, twice, I believe. I had concerns about how people access justice, and here’s the perspective that I have: our lived experiences shape our policy decisions that we make. And one of my family members has twice been the victim of assault, broadly. And here’s what we learned: Our justice system isn’t set up to help victims in their time of need. These were bitter lessons. You can do everything right and still not get the justice that is fair. And unless you’ve been through it, it’s impossible to understand what it’s like to be a victim. And I would say, in the legislature, not everyone has that kind of experience and that perspective that I do. So it’s important, I think, to create spaces in which victims can deal with these issues sooner rather than later.
So to wrap up, I would say that it’s easy to sit here in a political campaign and cherry-pick issues and votes to try to sell a whole story about someone when it is not true. And as a Black person, I’ve experienced that my entire life, and it’s my opponent’s attempt to cast doubt where I’ve worked really hard to make sure that I’m a person that people know will stand up on the issues.
I will say that my opponent doesn’t have that same lived experience that can carry other people’s pain in the way that I can. I’ve stood up. I will continue to stand up, and she often introduces us as minority candidates but I don’t think she has an understanding of what it’s like to be a Black person enduring the justice system. Yeah, she doesn’t understand that. And that’s how I would explain it.
Miller: Jamie McLeod-Skinner, you have about a minute and then we’re gonna move on to some other issues.
McLeod-Skinner: Well, I have been an out lesbian my entire adult life, and have had my job, my home, and my personal safety at risk for that and my family. And just to counter some of the things…. On corporate PAC money, in the time she’s served, she’s received over $400,000 in corporate PAC money. In the 20 years since I was first elected – I’ve served in 12 years of the past 20 – I have never taken corporate PAC money. It’s a huge distinction. And on the rape vote, she voted for a shorter duration, extending the statute of limitations. She voted against extending it to seven years. In Oregon, if someone trespasses on your property, you have longer to challenge them in civil court than if they trespass on your body. That’s unconscionable.
Miller: I’m gonna try to go through some other issues in the time we have left, because there’s not that much time. So if you could both have shorter answers as we go, that would be great.
Jamie McLeod-Skinner, in terms of foreign aid, how would you broadly approach questions of military support going forward? I’m thinking specifically about Israel and Ukraine.
McLeod-Skinner: I began my public service in Bosnia and Kosovo after the war, working on the ground for a humanitarian organization. This is really near and dear to me. We need to protect our allies. We need to lead with diplomacy and ensure safety. We also need to protect civilians, and US weapons should not be used to harm civilians,so that should be a red line for us. But absolutely, we should be investing in protecting allies and also, in the case of Ukraine, stopping the spread of Putin. He is very dangerous, and it’s an investment in helping provide military aid so his troops can fight, so that ours don’t have to have boots on the ground.
Miller: Janelle Bynum?
Bynum: I think back to my experience as an exchange student, where basically the point was that young people could be used to implore more diplomacy between nations. And whether we’re talking about how much we fund aid to other countries, or with what machinery or weaponry, I think what we’re hearing from our young people today is that war is horror. And I think that is what I lead with as a mother. I think it’s important for us to stand up for our national defense. Absolutely. I think it’s important for us to be strong allies. If we say we’re your friend, we should be your friend and we should stand with you. And we can’t turn a blind eye to civilian casualties. Those are the things I think that young people are bringing up to us today.
As a mother of a college student, last Wednesday I asked my daughter, “So, there’s a lot of protests going on today, a lot of the large universities…” and she’s like “Mom, that’s every day. We’re in college.”
Miller: How would you prioritize health care policy changes, as a member of Congress? You have about a minute.
Bynum: Health care, I believe, is a fundamental human right. And in the legislature we’ve passed numerous bills, including reproductive health equity, to help cover all kids. It’s a policy that I believe is near and dear to our heart. Health insurance and health care is a community asset, and making sure that our hospitals and our health care workers are safe is a priority for me. It has been in the Oregon Legislature, and it will continue to be for me in Congress.
Miller: Jamie McLeod-Skinner, what would you like to see in terms of health care policy?
McLeod-Skinner: We need to make sure everyone has physical and behavioral health, mental health care. We’re the only industrialized nation that doesn’t do that. Kudos to Governor Kitzhaber for Oregon being a leader in this, but we need to expand that. So, at the federal level we need to invest in that, making sure that everyone has a full range of health care.
And then also, make sure that we have folks who…nurses and health care professionals. I mentioned the civilian GI Bill program that I proposed previously, that would help people go into those professions, to education of the professions as well, get through them debt free. And then work where they’re needed in rural areas in urban areas as well.
Miller: This is an unusual race in that both of you have already gone against Lori Chavez-DeRemer. Janelle Bynum, you defeated her twice in legislative races. Jamie McLeod-Skinner, you lost in a very close election to Congress two years ago.
Jamie McLeod-Skinner, first. How would you approach the general election? And what’s your argument for why you have a better shot to defeat her than Janelle Bynum?
McLeod-Skinner: Well, because most of the district, most of the voters are outside the Portland metro area. If you look right now at the legislature, there are no Republicans elected in the Portland metro area. It’s heavily Democratic, but you’ve got to be able to win outside the Portland metro area. This district was redrawn when Oregon got a new Congressional District, over half of its new, it now extends into central Oregon. I won the purple areas last cycle. I actually outperformed our elected governor by seven points in the district. In Deschutes County, which is over a quarter of the voters, I’ve outperformed every Democrat who’s run for president in the county since before the 1960s.
The bottom line is, it’s a different cycle. We’re very well positioned. Lori Chavez-DeRemer now has a voting record. I’ve got a really strong team and ultimately, I’ve got a base throughout the district that is incomparable. You’ve gotta be able to win outside the Portland metro area and that’s the key here, and that’s why we’re gonna win in November.
Miller: Janelle Bynum, your take on the electability question.
Bynum: Sure. Last night, I was picking my son up from soccer, and they tied their game and he was kind of replaying the game in his head, and he wanted to win so that they could at least try and get first place in the league. And I just told him, you know, the most important thing is that you understand how you lost, and you focus on being a winner, a consistent winner. And that’s what I’ve been.
I have beaten Lori Chavez-DeRemer, not once but twice, and I’m ready to do it a third time. And I ran with zero political experience. I ran on my values. I ran on grit. I ran on determination and now I’m running on a record, a record of eight years of success serving Oregonians, both in the Portland area as well as rural areas. And I’ve brought home some of the biggest legislation the state has seen: 23 civil rights bills, the CHIPS Act, Reproductive Health Equity Act, Equal Pay, There’s a laundry list. But at the end of the day, I win, and I will be the winner in November.
Miller: Janelle Bynum and Jamie McLeod-Skinner, thanks very much.
Bynum / McLeod-Skinner: Thank you.
Miller: Janelle Bynum and Jamie McLeod-Skinner are two Democrats in the democratic primary to take on Lori Chavez-DeRemer in November, for Oregon’s 5th Congressional District.
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