As libraries change to meet the needs of their communities, these public spaces are seeing their services expand in different ways. For some, it’s the growth of children’s areas and play spaces. But how do libraries plan for these spaces and what does it take to make libraries a welcoming place for all ages?
Several Multnomah County libraries are currently under renovation, with some opening as early as this summer. Some of these renovations include expanding children’s areas and having an outdoor play space. The Spokane Public Library opened new children’s play spaces in six of its libraries in 2021 and 2022. Joining us for a discussion about this issue are: Jennifer Studebaker, Multnomah County library community services director for children; Katie O’Dell, Multnomah County deputy director of library building projects; and Amanda Donovan, Spokane Public Library director of marketing and communications.
Note: This transcript was computer generated and edited by a volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. We’re going to spend the hour today talking about libraries. We start with a conversation about the way that library spaces are evolving, about efforts to make them welcoming places for people of all ages. Several Multnomah County libraries are currently being renovated. When they reopen, some as early as this summer, they’ll have expanded children’s areas and even an outdoor play space. The Spokane Public Library opened new children’s playspaces in six of its libraries in 2021 and 2022.
Jennifer Studebaker is Multnomah County Library’s community services director, Katie O’Dell is the library’s deputy director for the Capitol Bond program, and Amanda Donovan is a director of marketing and communications for Spokane Public Library. They all join me now. Welcome to Think Out Loud.
Amanda Donovan: Thank you.
Jennifer Studebaker: Thanks. Glad to be here.
Miller: Katie O’Dell, first. Holgate Library is going to be one of the first new Multnomah County libraries to reopen in a new way. What kinds of spaces for kids will be there that weren’t there before?
Katie O’Dell: Oh, I’m so glad you asked that. We are very excited for Holgate to open because it will be really that first taste of what the wholesale new 21st century library will be. And what you’re gonna see – as we’ve had in other libraries – are childrens’ spaces but much expanded. Before we had an early childhood corner, or maybe there were a couple little activities for your child to do while you were searching for books, or you were doing your own thing on a laptop.
Now we’re gonna have definitely thousands of square feet for children and really rich interactive amenities where you’re gonna wanna hang out and play. And so we’re creating many more destinations where you can go to story time, and then get your books, and then you can gather and make some friends. There’s more space for everyone to be, to hang out, for parents and caregivers to get done what they want to get done, but also for kids to have this very literacy and play-rich environment with lots of other kids.
And then of course, as you get older, we have more spaces for older kids and then actual dedicated teen spaces for teens that are chock full of amenities as well. We cannot wait for the public to see these.
Miller: I want to hear more about teen spaces in a bit. But Jen Studebaker, why greatly increase the square footage devoted to kids?
Studebaker: Well, I think when you consider all of the opportunities that you may receive from your public library, it’s good to think about how we want to engage all ages of patrons at the library. But in order to do that best, we really want to engage in our children’s spaces. So that way we can offer opportunities for families to engage in their early literacy practices together, the five essential practices. Those practices are reading, writing, talking, singing, and of course playing. So in order for families to have that space to learn and grow together, we really wanted to invest in these new spaces within our library.
Miller: I don’t mean this in a kind of nefarious way, but do you see computers or play structures as a kind of lure, a way to get kids into a library where, then, you can sneak in the literacy, the stories, the books?
Studebaker: Well, as a parent myself, I know all about the lure. But the thing is, we are really learning that those fun things are actually what really embed the early literacy practices and help children really learn to grow and read and write and all of those things that we’re meaning for them to do. So we do have all those fun things within the library, but each of those things, we are sure to select the things that will offer the children the most opportunities to grow together.
Miller: Oh, in other words, the play itself, it does have some kind of learning component.
Studebaker: Absolutely.
Miller: What’s an example?
Studebaker: An example of something that is learning through play has to do with the different ways that people learn. A lot of people learn best through kinesthetic means. So being able to actually physically manipulate and touch things that help them learn and grow, like textures, or shapes, colors, things like that. Another way that people play together is interactive, through games. So we offer both virtual games, online games and also things that can be done physically within those spaces.
Miller: Amanda Donovan, you’re a little bit ahead of Multnomah County in terms of the work that followed voter-passed bond. It seems, if I understand correctly, that that work is done. Can you give us a sense for what voters approved in 2018 in Spokane and what you’ve done with it?
Donovan: In 2018, voters approved a $77 million bond for us to renovate four libraries and build three new libraries in Spokane. We did public outreach prior to passing that bond and the number one requested item from the citizens was improved children’s spaces, similar to those that have already spoken. Our children’s spaces previously were a colorful rug in a corner of the library with maybe some blocks that we would pull out. Now we have six thematic play spaces that are themed with the flora and fauna of Spokane in six of our locations. And they’re all linked together with “easter eggs.” If you’re at one, you can see little hints of another library. So it might encourage you to visit the other library spaces. And there’s everything from a slide in two of our locations to climbing structures and cozy nooks to read. And they’ve been really well received.
Miller: I read online - and I was trying to learn more about it, but I couldn’t find things - that one of them actually has a zipline above the library?
Donovan: It’s actually a zipline for a sasquatch.
Miller: Ohhhh, OK!
Donovan: A child doesn’t zipline on it, but a child can wind a lever in a little tent area and the sasquatch zips across the top of the children’s space in the library.
Miller: That does make more sense! There has to be a limit on the fun at some point, even if it has a didactic goal.
What has the response been from members of the community?
Donovan: The response has been so positive. Like others have spoken about, just the opportunity for caregivers and children to connect in a fun indoor space. As you might know, Spokane has, some years, a snowy winter climate, and there’s really nowhere free to go inside and play and interact with your kids. A lot of the places require payment, right? And so we’ve provided this safe space where kids and caregivers can come interact, they can use the play space, they can check out books, they can engage in literacy and fun.
Miller: And not just colder winters, but hotter summers than the Portland area has.
Katie O’Dell, sticking with that theme for a second, I think I’m right that Multnomah County libraries were closed a couple of weeks ago during the ice storm, as so much of public life was, so much of all life because it was hard for people to get around. But we are no strangers to smoke, to serious heat waves, to cold, sometimes without ice. How do you think about extreme weather when you’re envisioning the buildings of the Multnomah County Library system of the future?
O’Dell: Oh, absolutely. One of our very early project principles that we established in early 2020 was to create buildings that were resilient on many, many fronts and resilient for the community as well. Part of that, of course, is the actual infrastructure and how the building is built, how air circulates in the building, how fresh air can come in or, at other times, it is filtered in, and then how we can utilize our outdoor spaces in terms of how they’re placed. And how the pattern of the sun either brings warmth or can actually hide and provide some shade.
We’re also doing things like adding sail cloths to outdoor space so that we can provide shade and really try to maximize all of this new space for use as many days out of the year as possible. But those extremes are happening more and more. So we’re still learning about that process and how buildings can adapt to that for the most obvious needs of people who really need shelter and some protection during that time. [We’re] also [learning] how we can continue to operate as a library and really community civic hub during those really extreme moments.
Miller: Jen Studebaker, I want to go back to this issue that all three of you have talked about. You’re not just trying to give kids a space to play and learn and read, but you’ve talked about fostering interactions between, say, kids and caregivers. How do you do that? I mean, how do you create a space that will really work intergenerationally?
Studebaker: Well, one of the things that we think about a lot is how we want to balance the needs of our community members. Certainly, our youngest patrons, children, do need a space that’s designed for their needs with materials and furniture and other things that are unique for them. But we also really care and emphasize an intergenerational approach. So in all of our spaces, we want to make sure there are things that appeal to other ages of patrons as well.
Let’s say you’re a teenager coming into our library with your younger sibling. We want to make sure that we have computers or chairs that fit your body and things that you can do there. Let’s say you’re a parent or a caregiver. We may have parenting information or flyers that are relevant to you in our children’s spaces too. We really want to make sure that we show up for our community in the same way that the community shows up in our space.
Miller: Katie O’Dell, we mentioned teen spaces earlier and we heard a little bit about them just now from Jen. What, to you, is the mark of a great space for teens?
O’Dell: Oh, even asking that question shows the sensitivity that you have to really let teens define that. So you can create space, you can close off that space, whether it’s so teens can be loud or be quiet because teens don’t always wanna be loud or quiet. It’s giving teens some autonomy. We’re working on ways that they control lighting and/or sound in the space. You have to have comfy furniture. Teens will just say bean bags but there’s even cooler furniture you can get for them. And then having a variety of tools that they may or may not have access to at home, whether it’s some simple technology, whether it’s some creative maker sorts of pieces. But really, it’s a place where they can hang out and geek out and make stuff, and just really want to spend some time and feel comfortable and welcome.
So that does evolve over time. It evolves as the teens come into the space and take some ownership of it. And then we find that really younger teens are the kids with the most time and abilities to hang out and spend time with us. So we’re really eager - we’ve never really had specific enclosed teen spaces at Multnomah County Library in the 27 years I’ve been here. It’s something we’ve wanted and hoped for for so long. So we’re so excited to get those spaces open.
We’re just about to launch a survey for teens in the east side of the county on the color scheme, sort of the theme of what the teen space will be like at the new big east county flagship library. So engaging teens early, but really also never assuming it’s a done space. It’s always a work in progress and one that allows teens to lead and gives them some autonomy and ownership over their space.
Miller: Amanda Donovan, is library visitorship up since all the renovations and the new libraries? I guess you can’t compare a new building to one that didn’t exist before, but in the existing ones, are there more patrons going in, more people borrowing books, more people using computers?
Donovan: Well, that’s a complex answer. The first answer is yes, more people are coming through our doors than ever before. The year 2023 was the first year we exceeded one million visitors in gate count at our library. So full stop, yes, more people are coming in.
The way that people are engaging in the libraries is changing, however. So some of your questions…were more people using computers? We saw nationwide a dip or a decrease in the number of people who are using stand-alone computers following the pandemic. I can’t comment on exactly why that might be. I have some ideas. And then the same with book checkouts, behaviors kept changing there as well. It’s holding pretty steady with the number of books that are being checked out and also the digital collection that we offer.
But the real reason that I see people coming into the library now is for connection, for programs, for interaction. We offer more than 200 different programs every month, for everyone from babies to senior citizens, on a variety of topics. And that’s really where we’re seeing a lot of engagement in the library, is people coming for connection and learning and to be together.
Miller: Jen, in Multnomah County, a lot of the libraries we’re talking about are going to be significantly bigger. So it’s not always a zero-sum game necessarily in terms of square footage. And this gets to stuff that we’ve talked about in the past. It does seem that in so many of the future-oriented conversations about libraries, the things that Amanda Donovan was just talking about, they’ve come up over and over, that increasingly, libraries are about community engagement and intergenerational time together, as opposed to primarily a repository for stuff. Does that mean that you’re going to be devoting less square footage to stuff to make room for the bean bag chairs?
Studebaker: Well, you have to have room for the bean bag chairs. Actually, we are taking a different approach. We will keep the stuff, the books, the things that our community members need, but they may not be in the neighborhood library branch in the same way that they were. We wanted to be sure that we’re prioritizing humans and space for people to gather and connect and engage, and not prioritize space for books.
We do have a very, very robust collection, both through e-books and online means, but also our beloved physical book collection as well. But many of those materials will be in a place that does not take up the square footage in our building. So we will be utilizing technology and other means to make sure that the relevant titles are on the shelves for people to browse and to collect. And if they need something that’s not on the shelf, they can place a hold and it will be retrieved out of our Library Operations Center.
Miller: Have you gotten pushback, Jen Studebaker, from people? We got a comment from a listener who basically said that including things like play areas is turning libraries into community centers. The implication, I think being, hey, this is a place for quiet. It’s a place for looking at magazines or reading books or checking books out. But it’s a place where “Shhhh” is one of the key phrases, key sounds. Do you get that regularly from library patrons?
Studebaker: I have to say, not so much. I mean, we get comments of all sorts because our community is vast and everybody’s needs are different. But the public library has not been a quiet sort of space like that in a very long time. Our community brings their needs with them into our buildings. And what we’ve been hearing and seeing from our communities is that they need a space to exist and be. And we will, of course, always have quiet spaces, study rooms, reading rooms and other places where people can have that quiet they seek if that is what they’re coming to the public library for. But we are really trying to make sure that we encourage community connections and dialogue in a way that makes sense within our library spaces.
Miller: Amanda Donovan, what about in Spokane? Has there been significant pushback since the larger play spaces have been opened in the renovated libraries there?
Donovan: Absolutely not. I think, as she just mentioned, that there’s definitely traditionalists who think “Shhh” is the mandate for the library. But really, people are coming, enjoying the spaces. And we did increase our private meeting space and study room space tenfold in the renovations as well. So considering that people do need a quiet place to meet and study, we’ve provided that as an alternative. You don’t have to sit in the children’s area to have your quiet business meeting. You can reserve a room where you can have that quiet space as well. So we’ve provided the opportunity for the whole range of what the community needs.
Miller: Katie O’Dell, Jen Studebaker and Amanda Donovan, thanks very much.
All: Thank you.
Miller: Katie O’Dell is the deputy director of Multnomah County’s Library Capital Bond program. Jen Studebaker is the library community services director for Multnomah County. And Amanda Donovan is the director of marketing and communications at Spokane Public Library.
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