What does the Pac-12 realignment mean for Oregon State University?

With the departure of the University of Oregon and the University of Washington from the Pac-12 conference, athletics at Oregon State University face an uncertain future. OSU is one of four remaining schools in the conference, along with Washington State University, Stanford University and the University of California, Berkeley.

OSU President Jayathi Murthy has said the university is doing everything in its power to “stabilize and rebuild” the conference, but with Stanford and Cal rumored to be in talks with the North Carolina-based Atlantic Coast Conference, the path forward remains unclear. Meanwhile, UO has promised to prioritize “long-held traditions,” including competition with OSU. But what that competition will look like still remains to be seen.

OSU Athletic Director Scott Barnes joins us to talk about the future of the Pac-12. We’ll also hear from Tyler Bilodeau, a forward on OSU’s men’s basketball team, about how the realignment will impact student-athletes.

Note: The following transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.

Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. The Pac-12 implosion started last year with the defections of USC and UCLA. Colorado came next and then over the last month, the bottom fell out. The Universities of Oregon and Washington jumped ship followed by Arizona, Arizona State and Utah. That leaves only four schools in the conference next year including Oregon State. It also leaves some huge questions. Should and can this quartet resuscitate the conference by luring other universities to join them? What are the alternatives and what does all this mean for student athletes?

Tyler Bilodeau is a sophomore at OSU and a forward on the men’s basketball team. Scott Barnes is the athletic director of the university. I talked to them on Tuesday, but we couldn’t air the conversation because of technical problems. So we’re gonna bring it to you now.

I started with Scott Barnes. After USC, UCLA and Colorado announced that they were leaving the Pac-12, there were, as I mentioned, a ton of questions about the future of the conference and a lot of speculation about what schools like the U of O would do. I asked him if he thought that five more schools would actually jump ship.

Scott Barnes: Well, it certainly was possible but as we got down to the very end, we felt that we could hold that group together and there was, as has been chronicled, a very late in the game sort of last hour decision by Washington [and] Oregon, which sort of was the House of Cards for the Pac-12, as we know it.

Miller: You’ve said that you were furious at one point about the unraveling of the league. Can you give us a sense for who or what was the object of your fury?

Barnes: Look, I think as you think about what’s happening in college athletics, there’s a lot of pieces that are impacting, in this case, could impact our student athletes negatively and it includes media companies who are making influencing decisions that aren’t for the good of a student athlete. And when you have an opportunity that we had, as a conference, to stay together and create a path forward that was meaningful and that sort of breaks up in the last hours. Yeah, there’s challenges to that and my fury, as I said, it was really about the entire situation and what happens to our student athletes because of that. Now, obviously, as you think about moving forward, those energies are channeled to solutions and that’s what we’ve been focused on since the unraveling.

Miller: And we’re gonna turn to those solutions in just a bit, but I mean, looking back now and doing a kind of postmortem, do you think that different Pac-12 leadership, for example, could have prevented this or were the market realities of a media deal and the desires of all these different schools - the conflicting desires of these different schools, with different situations - was this inevitable?

Barnes: No, I don’t think it was inevitable. I think that being in tune to the conference, understanding the climate, I mean, certainly leadership was dealt a hand that wasn’t optimal for a lot of reasons. But at the end of the day, as leaders, were counted on to deliver and that did not happen. And I think, as you look back, hindsight is 2020. I’m not gonna pick apart a bunch of the decisions that were made, but ultimately, it was the responsibility of conference leadership to deliver and that wasn’t done and yes, outside influence has a lot to do with that.

I don’t think you can say it’s any one thing that impacted this. There are a number of things, including media markets and technology companies. Both those sectors were really down and the timing of all of this was not optimal at all. But even more the reason to have your eyes and ears wide open to your members interest and needs in keeping it together. So lots of things contribute to this day that there is not necessarily one thing, but certainly leadership is a component of the failure.

Miller: Tyler, what drew you to OSU when you were considering where to go to college and where to play college basketball?

Tyler Bilodeau: Well, I took my visits and one of them was obviously Oregon State and when I got there, I felt like I had a really good connection with the coaching staff and I felt like academically, I could really do good there. And it just was like a feeling, a feeling deep down in my stomach. I got that it was right and it felt like home and too, I love the city of Corvallis. So it just felt perfect for me.

Miller: When you were deciding, how much did you think about the conference itself? I mean, the teams that you would be playing against and where they were?

Bilodeau: I mean, yeah, that was really big. I wanted to play in a Power Five conference and I grew up watching the Pac-12, being from the west coast, so it was definitely one of the big reasons why I wanted to come here.

Miller: This is maybe a hard question to answer, but would you have chosen OSU a few years ago if you knew what was going to happen to the Pac-12?

Bilodeau: Oh, yeah, I think . . . I mean, that’s so hard. That is a hard question. But I think I still would have come here. I believe in our coaches and our staff to do what’s right, do what’s best for the school. So, yeah, I would say, yeah.

Miller: Scott Barnes, OSU President Murthy has said that quote, “Preserving the Pac-12 is in the best interests of OSU student athletes and the remaining universities.” Why is that? Why is trying to beef up and preserve this particular conference the best path forward right now?

Barnes: Oh, there’s all sorts of reasons, maintaining our Power Five or Autonomy Five designation.

Miller: Actually, let me stop you there, because that’s something that Tyler mentioned as well. And I think a lot of our listeners may not know what it is. So what does it mean to be a Power Five conference?

Barnes: Yes. Power Five or Economy Five as it’s called, is the five conferences that currently reside and have a different relationship with a college football playoff. The designation really comes with an extra set of resources that are being provided and although a threshold was not set prior, the NCAA Transformation Committee is coming up with some additional benefits for student athletes that we provide in the neighborhood of health care, mental health, scholarships and we do provide all of that. Access to the playoff, football playoff, is certainly a large part of that.

In addition, the Autonomy Five or Power Five has a pathway to legislation that impacts them specifically, unlike other divisions - Lower Division One, for instance - where budgets can be as little as, $5 million to, to $200 million of Power Five. So, there’s a large discrepancy and difference between just Division One, for instance, non-football playing, to Power Five. And so there’s legislative autonomy with that as well as additional resources.

Miller: OK. So to boil that down, you’re talking about in addition to the specific football related benefits of having access to the playoffs, there’s also a lot of money on the line and more autonomy as you’re noting. So that’s one big reason to beef up and stay in a new version of the Pac, whatever the number might end up being. What are some other reasons?

Barnes: You think about the foundation, Dave, of college athletics. It was built on regionality, it was built on regional rivalries. And for the student athlete, geographically, keeping together those schools that are in your geographic region to the best you can is important. The history and tradition of the Pac-12 is still relevant, keeping that together, certainly important, using the four members to attract additional members is our best path forward as it relates to that. Not our only path forward, but our best path forward.

Miller: So what are your conversations like right now with your counterparts at Stanford or Cal, at Berkeley or Washington State?

Barnes: Yeah, as Stanford is continuing to evaluate options, they are engaged with conversation with us, as is Cal. Not as much as Washington State is. Washington State and Oregon State tend to be joined at the hip more. Why? Because we’re similar in market size and in opportunities and options . . .

Miller: I should say, for people who haven’t been paying attention, that Stanford is talking seriously about joining the ACC which, as a reminder, stands for Atlantic Coast Conference, throwing aside your concerns about regionality.

Barnes: Yeah. So, back to the point, when your question is as it relates to us discussing, what are we having conversations about? Those two schools are . . . yes, they’re engaged, but they also have options they’re considering. So we’re on a parallel path and that’s four of working together at some level and two of us, Washington State and Oregon State, working together, in both instances [and] trying to rebuild the Pac-12, in one instance with four - a bit easier task, not easy at all, but easier than having two -  and all for the reasons stated earlier.

Miller: Right, I mean, if Stanford and Cal were to leave as well, at what point does it become insurmountable?

Barnes: Yeah, questions have to be answered in terms of our rights as a conference, from a voting block and what members make up a quorum to the assets in the Pac-12 and what assets we may have, are entitled to or a portion of, all those things. As an example, the Autonomy Five designation, which stays with our conference unless the NCAA Board of Governors creates legislation and votes to change it. So, those are reasons why you keep this together and the answers that we receive, relative to some of the things I just mentioned, will help inform our path forward as it relates to how long we hang on and where we go from here.

Miller: Scott, what are some of the other schools that are in the mix right now in terms of being added or asking to join or being asked to join the Pac-12?

Barnes: Yeah, we won’t talk about the specific schools, but I’ll tell you that our options continue to be looking, and having essentially invitations to Group of Five schools which is a level down. The Power Five Conferences, along with five Group of Five conferences, make up what we call the FBS, Football Bowl Subdivision. And in that Group of Five, there are several invitations for us to join the Group of Five, which is at the non-Autonomy Five level. As it relates to specific schools, I won’t discuss specific schools, other than to say that certain regionality continues to play a key role in this to the best we can and we’ll continue those conversations moving forward.

Miller: Tyler, we’ve heard the word football a lot so far in this conversation, for obvious reasons. That’s where the most money is generated and the most attention is paid. Basketball, especially in March, has to be second place, so it’s not like you’re playing a sport that has very little TV interest. There are other sports that, where people work really hard, devote their lives and really enjoy what they’re doing, but just don’t play sports that generate money for corporations in the same way. Yours is sort of in the middle. But I’m just wondering what it’s like, as a non-football athlete at a college now, to be so tied to what happens because of football?

Bilodeau: Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. I think a lot of the other sports have a lot of uncertainty and a lot of questions. But I think the biggest one would be traveling, because football only plays once a week, so they can do it. But a lot of these other sports have like, multiple games a week and that makes really, really long travel weeks and especially if you’re going all the way across the country quite a bit. So, yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest things and then, yeah, I think like rowing, I don’t think every school has rowing. So, that’s like a question there too. So I think, yeah, there’s just a lot of uncertainty for those sports.

Miller: How would you feel about traveling, say, to Texas or Louisiana? Those are states that have universities that have been mentioned in recent articles as maybe being on the invite list: Tulane or Rice or SMU. How would you feel about going two thirds of the way across the country or more to play conference games?

Bilodeau: I don’t think it would be too crazy. We only play two games a week. So, I don’t really like long plane rides but we would do it. I think it wouldn’t be too bad for basketball. But I know for sports, like baseball, they play a lot of games a week so that would probably be pretty hard on them.

Miller: Scott Barnes, you’ve had a lot of meetings with student athletes like Tyler, with alumni, staff and others in the last few weeks, I know. Can you give us a range for the sentiment you’ve been hearing?

Barnes: Sure. Yeah, I think from a student athlete perspective, and Tyler shared some of his perspectives, are travel concerns and competing at the highest level. Our student athletes want to compete at the highest level and that’s our 24/7 job, to put us in the highest and best place for competition. So I think what we’re hearing from alumni is sadness and concern about this Pac-12, the history and legacy that this conference has had for over 100 years that is being broken up and all are waiting for clarity, as we are in some respects, right? We’re all waiting for clarity on what that path forward is.

Miller: What do you think this could mean for recruiting?

Barnes: Let me give you an example. We look at this last year when the talk all year has been conference expansion. We lost UCLA, USC, more discussion about other schools leaving. And during that time, I don’t know of any recruits we’ve lost because of that. Now, fast forward, and obviously this is a different circumstance, but let me share one more anecdote for you and then I’ll tie a bow around it. We had two of our top recruits in our history in volleyball on that Friday that all of this broke apart. And last week, those two recruits committed to come to work and stay. Why? A lot of reasons that Tyler had mentioned: the comfort, the culture of this place, the facilities, the people that walk the hallways, the coaches, the leadership. Now all of that is really important, and I think trumps conference alignment, but conference alignment certainly plays a role. So the impact moving forward is yet to be determined, but our coaches, all of us are leaning into this special place that is Oregon State. And in many instances, the decisions being made by recruits are about their fit and feel for this place, which is special.

Miller: How likely do you think it is that there will be Civil War games, U of O, OSU games, football games every year going forward?

Barnes: I think it is yet to be determined just based on our path forward. And so we’ll look at all of the circumstances and at the end of the day, what do we need to fill our schedule? How do we, how does that look? Oregon’s got their own changes and what they’re doing in their path forward. So, yet to be determined, in terms of how that schedule works out.

Miller: Is there any way that you could see this cataclysm - which obviously you’re still in the middle of and there’s a lot of messiness and questions still to answer - but on the other side of it, is there any possibility that you could actually be at a better place, where you just are bowing out of the most purely money focused aspect of athletics and, I guess you don’t have to be in that world because that world has sort of left you. Are there any benefits to that, for the overall enterprise here, which is education and student athletes, as opposed to pre-professional athletes, that are a way for a lot of already rich corporations to make even more money from student sports? It’s a long question, but I’m just wondering if there’s any bright side here?

Barnes: What did you refer to it as, pre- what?

Miller: Oh, well, I was saying the emphasis…

Barnes: Did you say pre-professional?

Miller: I did the emphasis, again…

Barnes: No, let me answer that. Pre-professionals. 95%, 98% of our student athletes are here for a holistic education that grounds them with life skills and experience that sets them up for the next phase in their life. And what we wanna do is provide the highest and best opportunity to do that, with the most resources to do that for 560 student athletes. Pre-professional is nonsense. To even say that is nonsense.

Miller: I appreciate your pushback and let me just try to explain what I mean. Because I too I have a feeling that the people who are tuning in to watch football and who care the most about conferences, many of them do see the tiny subset of athletes who end up on television or end up in the national championship. I think it’s not uncommon for people to see them as pre-professional and it also seems to me that, because of where the money is, so much focus is on a tiny piece of college athletics. And my question is, is it possible that that focus can warp the overall enterprise, which is very, very different? That’s the heart of my question.

Barnes: Look, college athletics has been successful. It’s the largest financial aid program in the history of the United States, save for the GI Bill. It’s created numerous Fortune 500 CEOs who participated in college athletics, and moved on. Football revenues support all of our programs. Yes, 17 sports programs, football revenues support those programs. Even thinking about, Dave, football and football student athletes, only 1 or 2% of them move forward to professionalism. So to suggest that I think is wrong. As it relates to this enterprise, yes, football drives the train.

Let me give you a couple scenarios that I think we’re gonna hear more about as we think about moving forward in college athletics. The Knight Commission, which is a think tank for college athletics, in 2020 proposed separating football from all other sports, because for one thing, what Tyler said, which is football travels once a week, everybody else travels multiple times. So might there be a path forward that separates football as a conference affiliation from the other sports, having other sports reside more regionally while football perhaps could be played at a more national level because of the structure, including the playing schedule. So those are things as we think forward on how to retool what we’re seeing, particularly because of conference realignment. It’s a new day and the influence of big media in it sort of begs the question, might we recalibrate how we’re essentially set up?

I think that that Knight Commission report in 2020 has resurfaced here in the last week. And I think that needs to be reviewed and taken seriously as a potential path forward, not gonna happen tomorrow, but I think over the next few years, that certainly could have some traction in how we think about college athletics.

Miller: Scott Barnes and Tyler Bilodeau, thanks very much for joining us. I appreciate it.

Barnes: Thank you.

Bilodeau: Thank you.

Miller: Scott Barnes is the athletic director of Oregon State University. Tyler Bilodeau is a sophomore on the men’s basketball team. We talked earlier this week.

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