For months last year, protesters rallied through the streets of Iran after 22-year-old Mahsa Amini died in police custody in September.
Now, protests in the country have diminished after a crackdown by authorities. Thousands of protesters were arrested, including journalists, and more than 500 people have been killed, according to one human rights group.
In Portland, for one college student, the country’s issues remain top of mind. His family still lives in Iran and has been affected by the movement. He joins us with details of his family’s experiences and why he hopes Oregonians will pay attention to what’s happening there.
Editor’s note: Because the student fears for the safety of his family, “Think Out Loud” will not be using his name.
This transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. Thousands of protesters took to the streets all across Iran this past fall demanding basic rights for women. Authorities cracked down hard, killing more than 500 people, according to one human rights group, and arresting thousands including many journalists. One of the protesters who was arrested is the sister of an Iranian student at Portland State University. He joined us recently to talk about his family’s experiences and his hopes and fears for Iran’s future. We agreed to not use his name. I started by asking him to remind us what sparked the recent round of protests in Iran back in September.
Student: Whereas about the freedom of most of the women, the movement in Iran, unfortunately they cannot decide for themselves what they wear outside of the house or home and what they have to wear in the public. And I hope I understand what you said, as everything started because of their just wearing hijab.
Miller: My understanding is that a lot of it had to do with the death of a 22-year-old woman named Mahsa Amini, who had been in custody after being arrested by the country’s so-called morality police for, they said, not wearing her hijab properly. What were protesters calling for. What were they asking for from the government?
Student: Oh they’re just asking for freedom. That’s a basic thing. It’s just like everyone has, but they don’t have that. They [are not] asking for really big stuff. They just want to be free. They just want to have . . . I don’t think in these days, someone can decide for you what you have to wear and the only thing they ask . . . but Iran is not the country [where] we can have anything. Like, everything comes together, just like being free, asking for freedom is one of these. But it’s not just about the freedom, it’s about everything, economy, life, but this was just like a starting point that people wanted. They’re just waiting for something, waiting for the storm and the storm happened. You know what I’m saying?
Miller: I mean, there was built up energy and anger and desire for freedom and the death of this one young woman sparked it.
Student: Yes, exactly. That’s what I want to say.
Miller: The protests had been described as one of the biggest domestic, inside the country, threats to the ruling regime in more than a decade. How did the government respond?
Student: What do you think about the dictatorship country? They’re always trying to [go] against the people and killing them, like more than over 600-700. We know, because many people are getting killed by the government, but they’re scared for the other members of their family and they don’t say anything. You cannot get the correct data [for] how many people they killed because, like I said, many people don’t want to say that, to just be safe for other members of [their] family. But they started by beating people, killing people, shooting them and many, I think over 100 young women and young men, they got blind[ed] because they shoot in their eyes. Besides killing them, they don’t have any mercy [for] the people, protesters.
Miller: Your sister took part in the protests and was one of tens of thousands of people who were arrested. What did the police or the government say about what she had done?
Student: Oh it’s anything you do against the government. It’s like a big crime in Iran. You cannot say anything about the government. And she was the person, she was in protest, and she got arrested because of being in protest. She didn’t do anything. She, just like other people, like thousands of people that were in protest, they took her, they arrested her. Like somebody, as a person, as someone who did a really big crime.
Miller: Even though she was just one of thousands of people protesting for basic rights?
Student: Yes.
Miller: What did you hear about her situation at that time? And how were you able to learn about where she was or how she was doing?
Student: We couldn’t find it. They don’t answer you. When someone [is] getting arrested by police, we cannot find any information about them and we didn’t know anything about where she is and we didn’t know what they did to her.
Miller: So one day she took part in a protest and then she just disappeared and your family or your friends had no idea where she was or if she was even okay?
Student: No actually she was in protest but they [were] tracking her, because they arrested one of her friends in the protest and they tracked her and they [found] her. And one day she was in work, they went there, they sent five people to her work and five people to house at the same time, [and] attacked them in house. And she was in work, they took her from there, but they came in the house and my mom was there. They asked my mom too, because they wanted to ask my other sisters too and they asked both of them at the same time. And they went to their other friend’s house and they took her friends too. And their dad and other friends and they took all of them from their house, even not in protest.
Miller: At that time, this is now a few months ago, how were you able to communicate with your family? What was communication like, what’s allowed and what’s not allowed?
Student: Unfortunately, we couldn’t talk a lot on the phone. First of all, they didn’t have the internet because the government, at this time always, they shut down the internet and we have a really hard time to get [a hold of] them. I usually use a phone call and I called them. But we cannot talk about anything because they are listening to us, they are controlling us, where we are. Anything we say about my sister, can they use it against us? So we couldn’t ask her what she’s doing, what happened.
Miller: So when you would talk, say, to your mother, you had to assume that the police or the government was listening. So you could talk about nothing that was really important?
Student: Yeah. I just asked. They just said they got her and we couldn’t ask more, because anything I said, if we talk more, they’re gonna use that against us.
Miller: This gets us to something that I feel like we should mention, which is that in preparation for this interview, you had asked that we not use your name and we’ve honored that request. We’re not going to be using your name. Can you give our listeners a sense for why you asked us that?
Student: That’s the only thing that because . . . they already know about us a lot and everything is just for safety for my family, because as I’m sitting here, I’m talking with you, I’m just like doing something that’s a really big crime in Iran.
Miller: Like in other words, here, it’s an everyday thing. We have guests in the studio or on the phone talking about their lives all the time. But what you’re doing here is a crime in Iran?
Student: Exactly. And if they know me, they can bother my family.
Miller: One more reason to persecute your family.
Student: Exactly. They’re going to put my family in danger. That’s the only thing. I don’t care about myself, I always fight for freedom, but I’m worried about my family and that’s not going to be safe. If they know me, where I am and what I’m doing here.
Miller: Let’s go back to your sister, and this is all now in a month or more ago that we’re sort of going back to her story. What were your fears before she was going to have her trial?
Student: Why we’re scared. It’s just everything about her life because we are afraid if she gets arrested, they can kill her and we cannot have . . . there is not any justice in Iran. There is not any justice and you cannot do anything and we can put all our family in danger because usually, by killing one of the family, they’re trying to shut the mouths of the other family members. Because if we want to do something and if I want to share that, they’re gonna say they’re gonna do that to the other members of the family.
Miller: In other words, they can kill one member of a family to silence everybody else, to scare everybody else. What were you able to learn about what happened to her after she was arrested?
Student: Oh, Dave, there’s a lot of torture. The the worst thing is like by sexuality, they tortured her and abused her, they made her naked, but I can say she was just getting naked and many people getting raped constantly.
Miller: There have been a lot of reports by international organizations and human rights groups about sexual assault and sexual abuse by military or by police officers in recent months, following arrests of thousands of people.
Student: Yeah, the one thing I’m pretty sure they try after . . . people before getting arrested, they’re so brave, but after they’re getting arrested, they are afraid, but not afraid of dying. They’re killing their soul and when people lose their soul, I think they can not be like a person like they were before.
Miller: I understand that your sister was recently released. Can you give us a sense for what happened?
Student: Oh she gets pardoned by the government. I don’t think that they have any mercy, but one of the reasons, I think, [is] there’s many, many people arrested. I heard it was more than 80,000 people arrested [for] just being in protest and I think they don’t have enough space for all of the prisoners. That’s why some of them get pardoned by the government, but they signed the agreement for that. If they get arrested for a second time, there is not any mercy for them.
Miller: I’ve seen the release of a few hundred prisoners over the last week or so described in two ways. One as just a public relations stunt. So a way to make either people in the west or people inside Iran think that the government was actually changing. But the other take is that there is some sign of change that the protests have had an effect on the government.
Student: No.
Miller: You don’t believe that.
Student: We don’t believe that. This is not going to happen in Iran. They’re not going to change any time. They [will] always be like that. They’re just pretending to be like they changed, but it’s not true because of the many sanctions going on now and many people, like many governments, they’re trying to put more sanctions on them. That’s the only thing, they are just pretending they changed but they never changed because this is not the first protesters going on. This happened two years ago and in three days, they killed over 1,500 young generation. It’s just two years ago. But unfortunately, I don’t know, it’s about the media or nobody cares about us. I don’t think many people know this has happened in Iran, it was just really terrible things [that] happened in just three days.
Miller: When you say nobody cares, are you talking about Americans?
Student: About all of the world, I think. I felt people . . . I really respect Ukraine. I don’t want to say [this], but I felt sometimes this is discrimination going on in the whole world and people really don’t care about us because I don’t know, just, I don’t want to say that.
Miller: Well, but you’re free to say what you want right now.
Student: I just say the Middle East people, they don’t . . . nobody cares about the Middle East people. It’s like we are not as human as other countries, others like Europe or America or anywhere else, nobody cares about us. It doesn’t matter how many people are dying or getting killed. But this is like the same thing happened in Afghanistan and nobody cares about us. When it’s like George Floyd happened, I really support him and I was like with them. I felt bad about that one.
But I wish that America also thinks about us like that, because we are just human. There’s not any difference between me and you and other countries or other people or other other races. This is not because people [are] from Iran, this is about the human. I just want to know it doesn’t matter where you are, in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iran or in South America or Africa. We have to care about the human. That’s the only thing I wanted.
Miller: What do you most want people listening to do right now?
Student: I just wanted people to know what is going on and [take] some action. Really, the only thing. Because the things I found, the government, they don’t care about us, any government, it’s not just my country. I just believe that nobody cares about us. I don’t know, have you heard the Michael Jackson music? He had the music, he said they don’t care about us. I just love that music, but it’s just like, I just want people to respect each other and they don’t look at who you are.
This is about the people in protests. They’re chanting “Woman. Life. Freedom.” That’s a basic thing everyone has and we don’t have that.
Miller: Woman, life, freedom.
Student: Yes, if you think about that, it’s not really a big deal but even we don’t have that.
Miller: How is your sister doing right now? How is your family doing right now?
Student: Unfortunately, we don’t have a lot of connection. One of the reasons is because I’m living here. These are the other things they can use against my sister because “you have a brother in America.” They can say you are probably spying for America. We don’t have a lot of conversations. I cannot call them constantly, as before.
So I’m not saying they’re doing well, they’re just doing their life.
Miller: Surviving.
Student: Yes, exactly. Just surviving.
Miller: Does anything give you reason to hope right now?
Student: I wish. I’m just hoping for the people. I hope it’s just a revolution happens. This is the big revolution for the whole world because I said this is about the woman, life, freedom. And I hope people wake up. That’s the only thing.
Miller: That people wake up.
Student: Exactly.
Miller: Thank you very much for coming in today.
Student: Thank you so much for having me here.
Miller: That was a PSU student from Iran who joined us to talk about his sister’s experiences in the recent protests and the future of the country. He asked that we not use his name because of fears of reprisals against his family.
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