As Portland’s point-in-time count ends, first-time volunteers share their experiences

Last week, the first ever tri-county point-in-time count began, which was largely coordinated by Portland State University. Volunteers, service providers and outreach workers from Multnomah, Washington and Clackamas County surveyed people without adequate shelter to formulate updated data on what homelessness looks like in the region. The count finished yesterday. We’ll hear from two Portlanders who volunteered for this count for the first time. Marianne Nelson and Richard Gibson share why they chose to participate and what they heard from people they surveyed.

The following transcript was created on a computer and edited by a volunteer:

Geoff Norcross: This is Think Out Loud on OPB, I’m Geoff Norcross, in for Dave Miller. Volunteers have been fanning out across the state counting the number of people who are experiencing homelessness. The so-called “point in time count” in the Portland metro area wrapped up just yesterday. The counties have done these homeless counts before, but this is the first time Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas counties have worked together on a single census. Today, we’re going to hear from two volunteers who went out and gathered data on our homelessness picture over the last week. Marianne Nelson and Richard Gibson are both first time volunteers and they join us now. Marianne and Richard, welcome to Think Out Loud.

Marianne Nelson: Thank you.

Richard Gibson: Thank you.

Norcross: I’d like to ask you both, and I’ll start with you, Marianne, why did you choose to volunteer?

Nelson: I live in Sellwood, and I walk the neighborhood, and I started talking with some of the homeless that can. And I wanted to do something about it in my neighborhood. So I joined the Housing Solutions Committee of our neighborhood association, SMILE. And through that I found out about the point in time survey, and thought it would be a good way for me to get to know and talk to some homeless, and break the barriers between us.

Norcross: What about you, Richard, why did you go out there?

Gibson: I was board chair of Central City Concern, and on the board for 15 years. And as I leave the board, I was looking for continued involvement with the homelessness issue in Portland. And this is a good way to get in touch with the situation, with people experiencing homelessness.

Norcross: I’d call that direct involvement. Marianne, where were you located for your shift?

Nelson: An absolutely wonderful place, All Saints Episcopal Church in Woodstock. On Saturdays, they have outreach where they have a free hot lunch at one entrance, they have hygiene products at another, and then in the back, actually in the church, they have their pantry where you can come. And then in addition to that, they had a shower truck with laundry there, with clothes as well. And that was wonderful, because people were hanging around to wait for their shower and so a little bit more willing to talk.

Norcross: How do you think being situated in a church affected your experience?

Nelson: I’m sure it would have been much different if I had gone into a camp. When you go to a camp, you’re in their territory, and I think that’s more difficult. Here, they were coming for services, so they already were admitting that they needed something. And when you say “we’re here to count those people who were unhoused on Tuesday night because we’d like to offer more services,” well they’re already receiving services. So I think they were pretty willing to talk. It’s the first time I’ve done it, but I think it would be much different if you walked into a camp.

Norcross: What about you, Richard? Where were you?

Gibson: Thursday afternoon, I was in front of the First Baptist Church in downtown. And then early Sunday morning at 5AM, I was in the Portland Building, which was a warming shelter opened up for those very cold days.

Norcross: And Richard, how many people were you able to survey, ballpark?

Gibson: I’d say probably 12-14 on Thursday afternoon, and 8-10 on Sunday morning.

Norcross: Okay. And what about you Marianne, how many people did you interact with?

Nelson: I only completed eight surveys. I talked to a lot more people than that, but the surveys were complete, which really impressed me. There’s 23 questions on this, and I was kind of led to believe they were a little intrusive and you wouldn’t get all the answers. But most of the people that agreed to talk with me answered all the questions, even the difficult ones.

Norcross: What is a difficult question, I’m curious?

Nelson: What’s your sexual orientation? Do you have a substance use disorder? Do you have long term disability, chronic health problems, mental health? That’s telling people a lot about yourself.

Norcross: And what about you, Richard? What was your experience delivering these questions?

Gibson: When I said that I talked to 12-14 people, some of those were complete interviews, but some of those were declined. People, for various reasons, said “not now.” We didn’t press it there. So I didn’t have that many completed interviews. But I was impressed that people were open to discussing those issues with me, and spending the time out there on the street or in the warming shelter. It was a real place to connect with them. You heard so many different stories of real experiences, and they were quite varied.

Norcross: The fact that you were at an emergency warming center, do you think that changed in any way how you approached the surveys?

Gibson: It did not change how I approached the survey, but it needs to be said that those folks that showed up for a hot lunch at 2PM on a Thursday afternoon at the church, not all of them were homeless, some of those were in houses or apartments. And so we did not fully interview them, because that was not the point. In the warming shelter, yes, everybody that was there would be considered to be homeless.

Norcross: Marianne, did you meet someone that, obviously not giving away any pertinent information, here, who told you a story that you think will stay with you?

Nelson: Oh, at least two. It brings out the human dimension of them. One person had a problem that my grandson has, and so I could really feel very grateful that my grandson is not in that person’s situation. But I could really identify.

And some of them, it’s just really funny, you’re through with the interview and particularly because some of them are waiting for a shower, they’ll say “well, would you like to hear about?” Well yeah, I’d like to hear about!

Norcross: Can I ask you, Marianne, what you did for a living?

Nelson: Oh, I have a jack of all trades, master of none background. I retired as executive director of a small land trust outside of Chicago, Illinois, and we moved here for retirement.

Norcross: Did any of that professional training help you in any way when you were out there?

Nelson: Well, way, way, way back I have a masters in counseling psych, and so that is probably the skill that helped me the best. I learned two things in the counseling psych program. One is you can’t rescue anybody, and I think that’s real important. We’re not there to rescue anybody. We’re just there to listen. You can’t promise them anything you can’t deliver.

And the second one is listening. I’m a great talker, it’s really hard to just listen. But if you shut up and listen to people, and they know that you’re really listening, It is amazing what people will tell you.

Norcross: What about you, Richard, what’s your day job?

Gibson: I was a former emergency physician, and now I do healthcare cost analysis for a nonprofit here in Portland.

Norcross: Well, same question. Did any of that experience help you in any way in this project?

Gibson: I agree with Marianne. Certainly as an emergency physician, I’m used to interviewing people that I don’t previously know. But the purpose here was to be completely open, watch your body language, watch your vocal language so that people feel comfortable with you in sharing, and by and large that that worked well.

Norcross: Marianne, what did the organizers do to ensure you and your fellow volunteers were safe out there?

Nelson: Well, we were in a pretty safe place because we were at the church. But I praise PSU for the training that they had, they made themselves available to you, they gave you a phone number that you could call live if you had any questions. I didn’t need any of that because I was in a safe place. The only risk we felt, I decided to do this on paper not on my cell phone. My husband was a little concerned about something happening to my cell phone, he wanted me to back it up before I went out. But I found I liked using the paper forms. People could see the questions we were asking, they knew what I was writing down. There was nothing secret about it. Richard, I don’t know what you used.

Gibson: I used a mobile phone, but if I were to do it again I’d go to a paper form for the reasons you mentioned.

Norcross: I understand one of the changes with this year’s census is an app that you were able to use on your phones, and both of you aren’t crazy about that app?

Gibson: No, the app worked very well. I just think that, as Marianne said, the ability to see over the clipboard and see exactly what you’re writing down I think would be helpful. And I just think that focus on a clipboard and piece of paper is perhaps a little less imposing than a person standing there with their finger on their phone. But the app worked great.

Norcross: Richard, I asked this of Marianne earlier and I’m curious about your experience too. What did you hear from people that really jumps out at you?

Gibson: Yeah, there are a couple of people that spoke about their relationship to where they lived. And one person who lived on a hillside looked up, pointed around the buildings around the church, probably somebody’s apartment, and said “I could never live in a square room with walls. I want to be outdoors, I want to be on the ground, that’s where I feel most comfortable.” And then another person after said “I stood up this morning in front of my stove, and then I stood in front of my shower, and I said, ‘I am so lucky to have this stove at this shower, and I’m just as happy as I could be.’” So there you have two ends of the spectrum of people dealing with their situation of being housed or unhoused.

Norcross: Marianne, did your perception of what it’s like to be homeless change in any way during this experience?

Nelson: No, most of the people that I interviewed were living in vehicles of some sort, which is different. Most of the people I talked to in Sellwood are actually the people that aren’t being counted in the survey, they’re the guys that live in the doorways or under the porches, and they’re not as easy to get because they’re not in one place and aren’t necessarily coming for meals and stuff like that. But many of them also, they’d like to have a place to go, but on the other hand, they love their freedom. One guy that I didn’t interview but I just talked to, similar to what Richard just said, just couldn’t imagine living in a small room, say an 8x10 room with four walls.

Norcross: So Richard, what happens now? What is your understanding of what the county’s will do with the data that you’ve handed in?

Gibson: I think part of it is, and I’m not an expert in this area, is comparative year to year. I think that the survey has at least a couple of different areas that contribute. One is the numbers. But I think more importantly is, for those that we did complete interviews on, you have a sense of what situations or what personal characteristics, environmental characteristics may have contributed to a person’s homelessness.And I think that qualitative information is very helpful to understand what’s going on out there.

Norcross: Do you think you’ll do this again?

Gibson: I could be. I think that I’d also like to serve people. I felt, frankly, that I was there getting more out of it than they were getting out of it. And not to make it a transaction, but I would prefer to be in a situation where I was actually serving them and assisting them, as opposed to interviewing them and taking something from them. It wasn’t as rude as that, but I would be more comfortable in a place where I could serve those folks.

Norcross: You’re serving for sure, but I understand you want to have more direct engagement. What about you Marianne? Do you think you’ll volunteer for a point in time again?

Nelson: Oh, I definitely will.

And I would like to answer one question, there was a letter to the editor in The Oregonian on Sunday. They said “please ask a question about where these people came from, that doesn’t seem to be asked.” I want them to know that it is asked. We asked, “is this the first time you’ve experienced homelessness? How long have you been homeless this time? And where did you live the last time you were housed?” Of my people, only one had come from out of state, and she came here because of family. I’m not saying that there aren’t people that come here because we have services, but the majority of the people that I interviewed were in either Multnomah or Clackamas County before they became homeless. So, that question is being asked.

Norcross: Do you think people have a misconception about the homeless population here in the city as being from out of state?

Nelson: And I don’t know. We certainly all hear about the buses that are coming, and I myself have seen particularly young people, teenagers, that are sort of kind of homeless, and Portland’s a cool place to go, and from here they’re going to go down to California and stuff like that, they’re nomadic. But all I can say is those homeless who I personally have talked to me, either Sunday are in my own neighborhood, are all from Oregon.

Norcross: And what about you, Richard? Are there misconceptions out there in the community about this problem that you think the data that you gathered during this count might help counteract?

Gibson: Yes. What impressed me was that each person has their own story. And there are a complex mix of personal characteristics, physical disabilities, health problems, perhaps mental illness, perhaps substance use disorder, financial issues, change in life issues. Each person is different, and you just can’t say the homeless are characterized by this or by that. Each person has their own story, and there’s quite a complex mix.

Norcross: Marianne, Richard, thank you so much for this. And thanks for being out there, I appreciate it.

Gibson / Nelson: Thank you.

Norcross: Marianne Nelson and Richard Gibson are both volunteers for the point-in-time count that just wrapped up in the Portland-metro area.

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