On Thursday, Russian forces invaded Ukraine after weeks of intense Western diplomatic efforts to avert military conflict failed. Russian forces have already killed dozens of Ukrainian soldiers and targeted attacks on Ukrainian military installations and airports, according to news reports. The fighting has left Ukrainian-Americans in the Pacific Northwest anxious about the safety of relatives and friends in Ukraine, with some disappointed by the response so far from U.S. and European allies to what may be the region’s worst military crisis since World War II. Joining us is Tatiana Terdal, a board member of the Ukrainian-American Cultural Association of Oregon and Southwest Washington.
This transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. After months of build up, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has begun by air, land, and sea. It is a full-scale attack from three sides. In response, Western governments, including the U.S., have announced economic sanctions intended to eventually force Vladimir Putin’s hand. Tatiana Terdal joins us to talk about the situation. She is a board member of the Ukrainian American Cultural Association of Oregon and Southwest Washington. Tatiana, welcome back.
Tatiana Terdal: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I was really hoping that I would not have to come back.
Miller: How are you doing today?
Terdal: Not well. Not well. I’ve had maybe 2 or 3 hours of sleep because the invasion started last night, our time, which was early morning in Ukraine time. And since then, all our community is basically awake.
Miller: As you said, we talked about two or three weeks ago, which was in the lead up to this war. As you said, you were hoping you wouldn’t be only going to talk about this. For months now, there has been a kind of terrible guessing game about Putin, will he or won’t he? Is this just a bluff? The Biden administration in recent weeks has been really clear, very explicit about Putin’s plans. They kept saying he’s going to invade. Here is all of this evidence. Did you think he would?
Terdal: I knew it was a strong possibility because in 2014 he invaded. He has already invaded Ukraine. So I knew this was a strong possibility that he may invade even further. So, yeah, I was hoping it would not happen, but I’m not surprised because it has already happened in 2014.
Miller: How much information have you been able to get directly from friends or family that you know in Ukraine?
Terdal: With some of them, we have been able to connect. With some family members, my mom has not been able to connect, so she’s trying that. I’ve been in connection with my high school classmate and she’s been showing me the views of explosions, videos from what she sees. She is, right now, about just two kilometers away from the evacuation zone. So far she’s staying in her apartment with her disabled son. But other people are evacuating. Some people we were able to reach and I’m hearing from friends of friends, and I’m here in Oregon, about whether they can reach their relatives and friends and what’s going on with them. But from others we have not heard yet.
Miller: How much fear do you have that communication will be one of the things that is broken down and that you won’t be able to actually get information about what’s happening directly from friends or loved ones?
Terdal: Yeah, it can happen any minute. So yes, it’s a very strong possibility.
Miller: I mentioned that the U.S. and other countries have now imposed sanctions, serious economic sanctions, on Russia. What do you make of these sanctions?
Terdal: So, they came pretty recently. Yes, within an hour. And I have not been able to study them in detail. I am disappointed that they came so late. I thought that the U.S. would be ready the minute Russia crossed the borders to impose sanctions since there was enough intelligence that the invasion was being prepared and would be happening, because for the last few days the U.S. Embassy not only moved from the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv, to western city of Lviv, but actually the personnel has been spending nights in Poland. So the US knew that this may be happening at any moment. I’m surprised the sanctions were not ready the moment Russia attacked. There are some sanctions that I don’t see on the list that I would like to see, like designating Russia a state sponsor of terror, I think would have been a very strong immediate sanction that can have immediate effect.
Miller: What more would you like to see?
Terdal: So designating Russia a state sponsor of terror would be strong. Another thing is switching Russia off from SWIFT, which is the main global network that allows financial institutions to send and receive information on international bank transfers, basically crippling it financially.
Miller: At the press conference today, when asked directly about that, it seemed that perhaps European partners are not on board with that at this moment. Reading between the lines, that seemed that that was what the president was saying.
Terdal: Yes. And it’s not a surprise that some European partners do not want to punish Russia because they may share the same fascist viewpoints as Russia. And that’s very unfortunate. But they don’t realize that their countries may be next, because that’s what happened in 1939. The Nazis first attacked Poland, and then they went to other European democracies, and then they also attacked their Soviet allies. Because remember the invasion of Poland started as a joint Nazi and Soviet invasion in 1939. And then Nazis attacked their former ally Soviets in 1941. So not presenting a united front to this invader right now may cost Europeans in the future.
Miller: I’m curious if you have been In contact with Russian friends in the U.S. in the last 24 hours, and if so, what you’ve heard from them about Putin’s decision to invade Ukraine.
Terdal: I see I have on my Facebook feeds friends who are of different races and ethnicities. Yes and some of my Russian friends just change the pictures to add a Ukrainian flag. So that’s just a very, very open and obvious support, and all I can say is thank you. All my media is right now in Ukrainian flags, including relatives in Norway and my Russian friends in Portland. We also have many Russian speakers who I don’t even know their ethnicity or where they were born, but they are also changing their avatars to add the Ukrainian flag, and all I can say is thank you. And I’m sorry for the sounds. I keep getting notifications and we’re getting, as a community, many messages of support, including from ecumenical ministries. I just listened to voicemail from Congress and then Blumenauer’s office. We can’t yet respond to everybody, but we’re really thankful and really appreciate your support. So yeah, thank you.
Miller: It’s one thing for people to change their avatar, change the picture on social media or to leave messages of support for you or to send you notes of encouragement. What do you think people in the U.S. broadly or in the Northwest can actually be doing right now that would be productive or truly helpful?
Terdal: Sending Ukraine weapons to defend themselves. Right now, Ukraine is fighting the Nazi invasion alone, and the same happened to Poland in 1939. If Poland was attacked just on one side, maybe it could have withstood just the Nazis. But when it was invaded 1st September, first by the Nazis from the west and then September 17th from the Soviets from the east, it just could not alone resist all of that overwhelming force. So right now, Ukrainians are actually putting up a good fight, but they may be running out of ammunition. They may be running out of weapons. I see calls now from Ukrainian volunteers for blood donations. And I see here local Ukrainians saying I wish I could donate blood. How we can do that? But you know, Ukraine will need support, definitely financial and also definitely additional supplies or weapons, because right now they are being attacked with the full force of the Russian military and being attacked from three sides. That’s another scary thing. They have been attacked from the north from the territory of Belarus. They have been attacked from the east from the Russian occupied territories in Eastern Ukraine, and they’re being attacked from the south from the Russian occupied Crimea. And remember, Russia is a much bigger country than Ukraine and a much more populous country with a bigger military. So Ukraine really needs strong defensive weapons support and financial support. And we’re grateful for Poland opening its border for Ukrainian refugees. That’s wonderful. But they also need to be protected while they’re even evacuating because there are now Russian tanks in Ukrainian cities.
Miller: Tatiana Terdal, thank you for joining us at a very difficult time. I appreciate it.
Terdal: Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it too.
Miller: Tatiana Terdal is a board member of the Ukrainian American Cultural Association of Oregon and Southwest Washington.
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